Burnt Hands Perspective
This is a raw and unfiltered look into the pu$$ification and state of the restaurant industry as a whole, powered by longtime friends Chef/Owner Antonio Caruana and former bartender turned News Anchor/TV Host Kristen Crowley.
Representing all aspects of the industry from the front to the back of the house we will dig into the juiciest stories and pull from decades of experience in one of the sexiest and most exciting industries in the world...the food and beverage industry.
From international chefs, sommeliers, industry pros, and so much more, this show will cover all of it without a filter. You turn up the volume; we'll turn up the heat.
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Burnt Hands Perspective
Ep 16 - Flavors, Friendships, and Mentorship in the Restaurant World - Tequila and Truth w/ Chef Rocco Whalen
BHP hits the Road! Chef Tony hit up Cleveland to sit down with Chef Rocco who shares insights about the challenges and triumphs of the culinary world, highlighting the importance of mentorship, skill development, and community ties in the restaurant industry.
This episode emphasizes the evolution of food culture and the significance of quality ingredients while celebrating the emotional connections forged through shared meals. Shot during the lunch rush, cause you gotta do what you gotta do to get it done folks, this is a raw and candid discussion between two chefs who hold the highest standards for themselves and their staff.
• Chef Rocco's journey through various culinary landscapes and how he supports the motorcycle club community
• The importance of community and camaraderie in kitchens
• Need for foundational skills among young chefs and being a mentor
• The evolving expectations of consumers in the restaurant scene
• Emphasis on the science behind cooking techniques
• The shift towards valuing quality ingredients over quantity
• Comfort foods and their nostalgic connections to community
Support this amazing Chef when you are in Cleveland, OH or Charlotte, NC at his restaurants - https://fahrenheitrestaurants.com/
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Listen up here. The restaurant industry is grueling and unpredictable, just like this show. From the front of the house to the back of the house and all in between, we will turn up the heat, you turn up the volume. I'm Chef Antonio Caruana. Welcome to the Tell All Podcast at Burnt Hands for a Record. How you doing, folks?
Speaker 2:This is the podcast on the road with Chef Rocco Cleveland's finest, if that's what you want to call it right I don't know if it's a finest, but I definitely love and I jive with the food and the industry and the culture and you Right on.
Speaker 1:Absolutely man. So Chef Rocco, here has been all over the fucking map all over the Midwest. You're a legend in my eyes. I've been following you and watching you since I've been coming around what 15 years now. So seeing your growth has inspired me to get my own growth, and the tequila you drink is all right, in line with what the hell I drink. So we're going to do a couple of drinks here, at least one to start, but I'm going to let you choose this one, bro. Which one do you want?
Speaker 2:El Rey. It's a Blanco that kind of just got introduced to me a little bit ago. You know, you can go Don Julio, you can go Casa Adores, you can go Tres Agaves, you can go Cabo Wabo, the old Sammy Hagar. I just like a nice clean starter. Again, I picked out five off the shelf. I love what I do. Tears of Lerona Cheers to you. A little neat lime, smooth, a good finish. It's a good starter. Tequila, you inspire me as I inspire thee, whether you're in Virginia, charlotte, south Carolina, north Carolina, charleston, denver, on the West Coast, you name it. Yeah, there's all good sorts of people telling great stories about the beverage and the food industry and hospitality. I'm here to break it down with you. I don't do a lot of these, I'm ready to do it with you.
Speaker 1:That's one thing I want to say. Man, I know you're a busy guy. You get people knocking on your door all the time. I'm honored. You're doing my pleasure, bro. Absolutely, I'm honored. You're a huge contributor to not only industry of food but in our world, the motorcycle world, you're a huge contributor and supporter of that whole thing. So you're multifaceted. Right, you have a lot going on and what you've done here is not really particular of our style, of who we look like. Right, we don't represent the actual mold of what everyone expects of us here, but I think that's what drives us to continue to do it. I think so the typical climate difference between Cleveland, where you are, and where I am, on the East Coast, far East, hard East, on the ocean. What is your take on the restaurant industry, as we are now the newer, younger chefs coming up with a little bit of time behind us? What's your take on the restaurant world now?
Speaker 2:I think it's as difficult as it's ever been to be an economical chef, to be an approachable chef, but also these young guys and girls that are coming up. They've got to really understand that. You've got to put a lot of time and effort into it. The recipes that are taught and the techniques that are gained Gainful employment, gainful skills, transferable skills, how to cut, how to chop, how to braise, how to stew. We need a lot more of that. We need more of that from culinary schools and culinary programs and guys like you and me that are taking upon us 16, 17, 18 year olds. We've talked about this, the younger echelon. They come in, they're not as badly rooted in certain things and you can break them into the way that you'd like it be done. Wash your vegetables this way and braise your meat this way.
Speaker 1:They haven't learned how to be lazy quite yet.
Speaker 2:No, and it's not laziness necessarily, as we don't necessarily know where the root cause of it is. It's where they're coming from.
Speaker 1:I think it's cutting corners, bro. I think when people get so much skill behind them, even a little, a lot of them focus the wrong way and they use the skill on how to make it easier for them. Translates to laziness to me. So it may not be lazy out to get I love your fucking walls here, brother, by the way, burnt. It's awesome man, unbelievable touch, and not even to cut that conversation off. But anyone who heard that noise in the background? We are live. My production right here is low budget because I'm on the road. This is my road set.
Speaker 1:Highbrow, low budget, that's it man, and we're here because we're talking as chefs and if anyone heard that noise in the background as Chef Rocco was doing it, right, I was going to say if anybody can comment below on what that sound was, you're on the right fucking page, right? If you know what that noise was, we're in a live, active restaurant. It's lunchtime in Cleveland, ohio. It's lunchtime in Cleveland downtown yeah, downtown.
Speaker 2:We're across from Sherwin-Williams corporate headquarters. It's about to bust open red carpet and ribbon cut. Cleveland, ohio. I've been a chef in this town for 25 years. I reached out about 12 years ago and opened a place in Charlotte, north Carolina. Shout out On the rooftop, new South, 21 floors up on a Hyatt man. You know the Hyatt usually does things a specific way. The developer said this is our guy. We kind of crossed the Hyatt out. 12 years ago I opened the first and most to date successful first rooftop rooftop restaurant ever to open in Charlotte. There's five now Kempton. You set the fucking standard.
Speaker 1:Grand Bohemian In the Kempton, grand Bohemian these are all competitive, money-backed people and you're still on top.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I'm on top.
Speaker 1:I'm competing at a high level against the corporate dollar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I mean on top is, yeah, I challenge my team, I challenge my chefs, I challenge my friends, but yeah, my rents are high, my returns are high, my rewards are high, my rewards are high. But yeah, the first time to do it, 12 years ago in Charlotte, north Carolina, there wasn't anybody doing it, there was McCormick and Schmicks.
Speaker 1:There's a Fleming Steakhouse, sure, rockawayland Rooftop, and that's right and let me tell you this, bro when it comes to climbing the peak right and people say you're on top as a chef, we're never on top. We don't own that right. The only thing there is is a peak. Nobody owns the. There's plenty of room up there for everyone to climb to get up on the peak. And then, once you have five or six good chefs in Charlotte or restaurants in Charlotte, you don't have to be on top of all of them, but you're on top with them. And that's the thing I try to do and keep my team focused on is we all have to get to the peak man.
Speaker 2:But we don't own the peak. Nope, we all have the right to get there and hang out up there, and we all get to fucking maneuver there. We get tickets to go to Summit too, and you hang out up there. We challenge each other just in having these conversations together in a one-off experience or a two-off experience. We're talking about the industry, things that are important. Gainful employment is important, especially in this day and age. We're upon an election. We don't know where the next six years of this world goes in the next two weeks. And this is important talk because your employees are my employees. They come from all walks of life, with skills or without skills. I really enjoy and I really really get my rocks off on getting a 17, 18, 19-year-old in here, young and then watching them grow with me and my company, because there's successes and you elevate them and you set goals and say, hey, I opened my first store at 23 years old. Man, what's the difference?
Speaker 1:So you start them off garbage, things like that. You're letting them learn the knife skills, the cutting, everything that we've done, and then you're going to go from station to station, typically like most chefs do, and then you're going to one day, hopefully, bring them up. And you know, once they start getting anxious and they start asking about that saute line. You know what I mean. They start getting anxious and they start asking about that saute line. You know what I mean. And they're kind of wanting to be on that grill.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean Full stop you throw 10 clipboards at them and say be a chef, here's your salary. You're never leaving, Just kidding. Now listen, the maturation process. For that you actually hit it on the head. Christian Riviera, 17-year-old. I have only skills that Burger King offers, which are, you know, similar to basic experience. I need a chance.
Speaker 1:Pay attention kids. This is how you do it.
Speaker 2:I was on camera, I was on a Facebook post. Somebody reached out to me he's not working for me and you know what he's done for the last few weeks All the vegetables, soups, stocks, sauces, any recipe. My high guys.
Speaker 1:Is he putting them together, a mise en place, or is he actually preparing?
Speaker 2:He's preparing now he is. He started at the basics of just all the vegetables for every recipe, and then that first recipe, then that fifth recipe, then that 16th recipe. He's a good young man and he knows our way. And our way is, you know, treat the vegetables and respect the food. The vegetables start everything. Go to the stocks, go to the bases, go to the tomato paste with the lobster, mix the biscuits, Sure, sure. Go to the With the braises, start with your paste. So you're talking about.
Speaker 1:You're talking about a, whether it be a, wherever you are, whether it be a mirepoix, the Holy Trinity, a sofrito, those are the vegetables that start, the base of pretty much everything. You're talking about one way or other depends on what language you speak, right, that's correct. So we have that trinity of vegetables that does start. We're talking about the most basic of starting, right? Not even getting into the more exotic flavors, the more exotic push you capitalize, see. See, I'm an italian. My genre is italian, multi-regional, uh, italy, uh, really traditional, uh, mix of modernization. That is what I go for.
Speaker 1:You have a really man. Your palate is crazy, man. You go from asian to italian to european, a little french influence. Your menu is all over and it's fucking amazing, dude. And that allows you to grow and allows you to go to different facets where your mind can just go. It drives me because I can only go so far out of the Italian traditions because of what my people expect when they come. So I can only go so far out of there. But, man, when I go drive that bus down that road at my house, or I'm starting to experiment on other things, it just drives me to go crazy, man, I love it, so keep on doing what you're doing as far as that.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it. So keep on doing what you're doing. As far as that, I appreciate it and I learned from you and I grow with you. Know, listen, if the Italian theme is part of the repertoire and you have a beautiful Italian restaurant on the Virginia Beach and I've heard stories from many people that's a beautiful thing. You know there are so many techniques that are just beautiful about the Italian cuisine or the Mediterranean cuisine or that region. You know you don't have the best olive oil region. You know you don't have the best olive oil. You are the olive oil. You don't have the best cheese. You are the best cheese Pecorino Romano, reggiano Romano, like there's so many different flavor profiles that come from that country. Sure, I love the guys like you that don't facilitate anything more than the base of a true proud region, sure, anything more than the base of a true proud region, sure.
Speaker 1:And then the Italian. If we were to go based on right, if we were to go based on the traditional Italian method of each region, you would be really limited to a few certain dishes which are fucking amazing. Right that you got the, the Bolognese's, you have the Milanese's, you have all these things that these regions are typically known for. You know, you got the pasta del plin from Piemonte. You can go all really deep in the old traditions but still, at the end of the day, if you were to only go with that, you're stuck with the traditions Still, and you have to learn. Like you do, you come out of the, you come off, you come off underneath the blanket man. You know what I mean. You explore the room and take these traditional areas and you kind of put your twist on them and you use the influence to make your modern twist.
Speaker 1:I knew that just from the three appetizers that I ate with you yesterday, the day before yesterday. Fucking amazing. And don't think for a minute I won't take an Australian Wagyu in my restaurant and put my Italian twist on it. It's what we do, right, I love it. So it's on it. It's what we do. It's a lot of fun, man, wow, what happened? They magically poured themselves. These are good.
Speaker 2:I didn't even see it One or two in the afternoon.
Speaker 1:I'm going to half sip this one.
Speaker 2:I'm fairly proud to sit here and talk to you about that stuff, though, because it's not easily done. All chefs love food and love regionality of it experiences. I just appreciate the camaraderie that we have. You know, whether all walks of life you know, food is a genuine, profound thing that keeps bringing people together. Brother, whether you're with a celebration, whether you're doing an anniversary this weekend, whether you're having fun with your family, whether you're taking your staff out to enjoy a community night with your team, you know, with that burn man, that's that coal on our fire. Community night with your team. You know, with that burn man, that's that coal on our fire, bro, that's that generator, that's that furnace man. I know you, I know how hot you run. I love that. You keep throwing coal on the fire and you keep elevating people around you, young folks, people that haven't been on the right path, been sideways. Take them on.
Speaker 1:Sure, it's a beautiful thing you have to. The best thing is talking to someone like you, bro, is we, as chefs, when we're younger, stage travel the world? I go to Italy twice a year when I was younger, especially coming up and studying different regions, techniques learning, learning, learning. But if you don't learn people as you get older, your techniques kind of fizzle because you're only repetitive. You're repetitiously sharpening your, your knife, you're you're repetitiously Julian, cutting something. You're repetitiously doing things without the meaning behind it. So the more you talk to a chef or the more you talk to someone successful, you now have a life force behind the motion. Right, the motion has to have life force, and I'm talking to the camera.
Speaker 1:I I really encourage any young chef, old chef, even if you've been in the industry for 30 years, right to get off your ass and go to Charlotte, come to Cleveland, take the weekend off and go somewhere. Don't forget that this is not just a job, it's a fucking lifestyle that you chose and you turned it into a job by ignoring the lifestyle. Keep the lifestyle fucking happy inside you. Where did you start off? Where did you get this? You're beyond local fame because your chef fame comes in multiple regions. Man, people know you. Where did you start? How did you get on the TV? Tell us a little bit about that man, because it's not only behind the pan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean I think like every opportunity you ever get, if there's somebody that calls out in your first career year in a restaurant, tv guy shows up, the other guy didn't show up.
Speaker 2:It was always a yes, kind of chef kind of thing with me and I always just showed up. And if I needed to be at four in the morning on the TV station with the camera doing something fun, making memorable moments on camera for you not to forget who I was, I grabbed that time and every time by the throat and I gave myself just this discipline and pedigree for making things great and attainable. When you and I started the grocery store, aisles weren't as big and weren't as ethnic. We've watched them grow in the last 20-25 years and you and I have been firsthand helping them grow. It's easy for us in our regional restaurants whether it's in Italian with ptela, cherry pepper or another peppercorn making a cacio e pepe with three or four different kinds of peppercorns. You're still appreciating that movement in the classic, but we didn't have those options 25 years ago. We had a peppercorn you know exactly.
Speaker 1:Hence um the fettuccine alfredo. A hundred years ago they didn't have the cacio pepe. Uh, opportunity, they didn't have the great, the pecorino romano and the parmigiano-reggiano here. So next best thing, how are we going to cream out something to get the same extraction? That's why they come up with Fettuccine Alfredo. That's just where it happens. So now that shit's accessible.
Speaker 2:Perfect point and that was the start.
Speaker 2:For me it was, just like you know, for me an ongoing love affair with TV and food and, you know, making people happy. Hospitality is driven through your food, your beverage program, your service levels, whether your doors have fingerprints on them, whether your bathroom shitter's out of toilet paper, you know there's 600 intangibles. As the owner of the restaurant, as a young owner of the restaurant, the operator that I became I started at a young age and I cared and I was responsible for what was in front of me, whether it was my money or the guy I worked for, or the girl I worked for or the chef I worked for's money. If you respect that money, it will ultimately lead you to respect your money. When you want to afford that Cadillac Eldorado that's loaded and tricked out and lowered and slammed, you better have enough money in the book to write that check, because everybody else needs to get paid for this. That was how I brought up my early career and I just cooked man and I felt that at the time Emeril was pork fat ruling it, paula Deen wasn't getting in trouble, yet Martha Stewart didn't have a clamp on her ankle. You know it was a time in the market of being a chef-driven or a chef concept or a chef.
Speaker 2:I'm a celebrity in the sense of I can raise some money for charities. That's the biggest part of the celebrity that I love, without that being stated. I truly enjoy the hospitality side of it and my career as a young age just pedigree towards that. And I went on the West Coast. No money in my pocket stopped in Phoenix 600 bucks full tank of gas, a hundred thousand dollar Mustang with a hundred thousand mile Mustang with you know nothing left. And you start in Phoenix and I went to Vegas and LA and next thing you know you're around. All these events and different things and these just truly experiences. Every experience you have is yours until all my guys that come in, young guys and girls.
Speaker 2:They said write down everything. You can be a sponge. Use the dollars that I spend or develop your repertoire. What's in your wheelhouse? You got a hot date tonight. What are the four courses you're making for that hot date? Take the time and the money that I'm spending on my dream to make it your own dream. Write it down, record it on your device. So there's a big conversation to have. I've started this in a career. My pedigree is a long time ago, when we didn't have phones and devices at our side. My mother always respected food. I always respected food.
Speaker 1:I always really loved the times on Sundays, with family meal and family dinners. That's what makes us who we are and what we are.
Speaker 2:And a lot of that comes from that. Some of your brothers were at that table with me at 13, 10, 12, 14 years old, and that's an important thing to me and that's why there's such a relationship. And I do lean off into the club life as food trucks and being on the road Sure.
Speaker 1:All of that stuff. You've hit a couple of our events, big events that we've had, that made the event the next level. Bro, I love it Absolutely. You know what I'm getting excited talking because I'm hoping that we're picking up all this sound, because you know, I hear the people in your dining room clinking and clattering and I hear the people laughing and I'm sitting here talking to you and I get the same feeling in my places and you have to feel it yourself. We're talking over this because we're in such a natural setting, right, but what? What the deal is is there's people in this restaurant that are laughing, joking, all because of what you. You're passionate. You're talking about that drive. They're here for it. I appreciate it. They're celebrating it Friday. That is the fucking answer, man.
Speaker 2:And we're rolling man and I love one come, one come all man, we don't segregate at the door man, we love good food, we love good times Segregating anybody about this business is sheer failure, especially this day and age.
Speaker 1:He's not wrong, because everything that comes through the fucking door, whether it be, it doesn't matter what nationality, creed, race, color they all bring something to the culinary palate. Okay, every diversity brings their own twist on culinary experience, and if you're willing to shut that out, you're willing to shut out the world. Man and food is one of the biggest senses there is Pull everybody to the table.
Speaker 2:Exactly, pull everybody to the table, man.
Speaker 1:Sight, smell, taste. It's all there. The emotions cover it. You know what I'm saying, and we're the purveyors of that shit, we are Every night.
Speaker 2:Every night, Every night and the experiences. We're guardians of it too. In a lot of ways, People come to us to have that good time, Like you said that the other day. I really, really, really stuck to me. It's like people come to get rid of their problems for a couple hours.
Speaker 1:That's right. It's our job. We have a job to do.
Speaker 2:That's right. It's no different than a gym and you're proud to do it, I hope, and the word gets out the right way to do it is a beautiful way. People come out to hang out with us. They don't know how to have a good time without us. That's right, my brother.
Speaker 1:That's right, man, and that's why I study up. That's why I got my level one in the Court of Masters Psalm. It's because I want to be able to purvey properly. I don't want to talk shit about you. I may not be able to get to the master levels because I have people that do that and those people are very passionate in that facet of the restaurant. I am completely fucking passionate about the wines and everything, but my focus is on the kitchen. So we all have our spots, man.
Speaker 1:But I will start at every level at least the entry levels of what it is I provide, because it's it's important to me, to me that I capitalize on the person's experience walking through that door 100%, and you do it gracefully. I'm going to walk around with a camera here in a little bit just my little phone probably and just get a little view of this place so we can post it up with this little turnaround. And let me ask you this man, what do you think of? You know we have, you get online and you see all the social media chefs. Nothing against them, but what do you think it does to our industry in the brick and mortar?
Speaker 2:Well, you have to have a constant toe. On both sides of the pool there's a shallow end and a deep end. You don't want to be a shallow swimmer, you want to go deep diving. You've got to have technique in place. You have to have good people in place. You have to have the right trust for the honorable, loyal people that are willing to adhere. Recipes don't change.
Speaker 1:In a brick and mortar.
Speaker 2:In a brick and mortar Trucks and a pen and jib are brick and mortar. Brick and mortars aren't easy, but you've got to have a sound foundation, which is your prep starting crew of the day. What's coming in your doors? What's being manipulated by our hands? What's going on to our customer? What's bringing johnny and susie back?
Speaker 1:do you have a prep crew in the morning that does specific prep? How many people you got doing that? Five and you find out value. You find out worthy, valuable grind.
Speaker 2:The grind's real every day. It's valuable, but they could be invaluable the next day and not decide to work at that level anymore. It's not easy. It's rewarding in the sense there's experience tied to that reward. There's also you know, you know, listen, I don't play around with wage. I'm looking for top-tier guys and I'm paying top-tier guys.
Speaker 1:Top-tier dollars, you have to pay top-tier. If you're top-tier, you know that's the conversation.
Speaker 2:It's like this conversation that comes out bad is like McDonald's is now paying this. That's what we start our people at. They're finally getting to the $15 threshold. I told listen, I don't have a guy in the kitchen that's under 15. In Ohio, mcdonald's is just now starting to do that. If you don't have a $20 to $25 expense for each employee that you know at a high level can cook seafood at a high level, coming from all points of the country, east and west, can cook a marbled steak. That's a Japanese wagyu $120. It's a $40 mistake our cost, $50 mistake50 mistake our cost. But if it does go our way, it doesn't go our way. Like when a wagon comes in and they say, midwell, we really hit the table hard before we put that on the grill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're like do you really want this Midwell? It's going to be, you know, cooked. I honestly don't allow anything over medium on that level of capacity. It's written in my menu because I don't want to be responsible for you People take a fifth step. No, because I have other options. We slam to.
Speaker 1:So I have a prime filet or a dry age. For instance, I have a very nice bone-in dry age ribeye prime. I won't go over medium with it because you're extracting whatever fluid is left from that dry age process. So the dry age already did the work. If you don't understand what you're eating, you shouldn't be eating it and I'm not going to destroy that piece of meat so you can tell me it was wrong. You see what I'm saying. If you're already going to get a medium well, dry-aged, bone-in ribeye, you already don't understand the process or purpose of why you're eating that particular ribeye. However, if you want something medium-well, we prime filet mignon. We can put that up to medium well for you and it will be perfect. But Chef will not destroy this and the story.
Speaker 2:Let's start a whole thing. Let's hashtag no midwell Hashtag my staff's laughing at us. Midwell is a concern of ours anymore, everybody. We've got great farms, we've got great farmers. We've got great cattle from all walks of life. From here to Virginia, your place to mine, I can name five farms that I would gladly butcher, shape and send you know out to you for great meat. Be honest and realistic with everything you're doing. Have it medium, have it mid-rare, have it Chef Tony's way. Where are you at with it?
Speaker 1:When it hits your palate. Where are you at Mid-rare medium? My man, my man, give me this. I mean, let me tell you something you and I are in.
Speaker 2:Italy and I'm looking around and you and I are splitting a 64-ounce T-bone that's been aged nice and I'm just doing a little olive oil. You and I are spanking it and sending it. It's rare you and me, and it's just a lifestyle.
Speaker 1:So I'm in Italy a lot. The Bistecca Fiorentina is a very popular dish. Hot rock flash fucking smacked pretty much cool inside. Not my style. I like personally when that meat gets to about a hundred and twenty nine hundred thirty degrees. I want the fats to move right. I need a little bit of movement in that fat.
Speaker 1:I just started to shake they start to shake they start to come out right right before they're starting to get active. The chemistry is working right. I want that. I like it. Right about mid rare and I hate the term. I don't hate the term, I love it, but there's a lot of chefs out there who hate it because I don't think they know how to cook it. But that mid-rare plus, that mid-rare plus right when that movement starts happening, is when you're going to get the best proteins out of that. You heard it here, kids 129 south for this man.
Speaker 2:I agree You're not wrong. That starts to shake before it melts. It's beautiful. There are certain cuts I think you can go further with along and up that ladder, sure Midwells and you get into brazes. But I don't disagree with you on the mid-rare medium.
Speaker 1:Now, if we're going to talk about a braze or anything like that, that's obviously not even a temperature control. That's a time control, and our moisture is going to be different there. I can feel about that, though Let me throw this at you.
Speaker 2:You've got all these guys that are out. You said social media platforms. They buy a Traeger. They have no fucking idea how to use it. How you feel about that? Because there's a lot of guys out there. They're over smoking, under smoking, taste and bark. I have folks that come in and, hey, chef, try my barbecue. And it's like, oh my god, I just, I just do, I feel about it.
Speaker 1:I feel they're totally fucking uneducated in what they're doing. So if you're tasting, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not much of aoker, but I am a fucking chemist when it comes to cooking and understand temperatures and what things happen at. The reason why you're tasting too much smoke is because your temperature on the flame is too low or your wood is too wet. You're getting a steamed ass type of fucking atmosphere in your smoker and you're not focusing on the heat content. You're focusing on the smoke, and nobody wants to eat smoke. I want to taste something that has a hint of smoke, but I don't wanna have something that was your wood was not hot enough and it was too damp and you need some heat in there first. Bring it down. So there's a lot of technical things and I'm not a smoker per se, but I am a chef, so I understand what heat does to certain things, whether it be meat or wood. Heat is heat, moisture is moisture, simmer is simmer, steam is steam, right. So how is that smoke coming out and why is it attacking your meat so fast? That's the question. What is the soot factor going on that's attacking your meat before the heat does?
Speaker 1:Once the smoke's in there, bro, you can't come back. You can't unspoil milk, right? You can't come back. You can't unspoil milk, right? You can't unspoke a brisket, you can't unsuck a dick. So this is that, hey, cheers, cheers to you. All right, all good. That usually shuts them up halfway through, gets them back on their toes, okay, how, anyway, however, man, listen, it's, it is very, um, it's very important that people understand what it is they're doing before they go do it Correct. I can teach somebody how to saute something or sear something or room temp something up to a nice butter-basted sear or something like that, but the only way they're going to learn why you're doing it is if they study the chemistry of why Routine is going to fail. Once something's different. What happens if that steak you're bringing up is not up to room temp, right? What if it's cold? What if the center of it is cool, right? So it's things like that. What do you think?
Speaker 2:Love it, love it. Traeger man, I'm all about it, just getting your take on things too. I love the fact that we can sit here and throw any subject out and just boom. Bye, connie. Have a good day, constance. See ya hun. Thank you bye, kate. See ya hun. Wine reps leaving real time guys.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we should have had a damn. That's the beauty about tone.
Speaker 2:Real time lunch. This is when we can do it. He's here in town for a beautiful celebration. I'm here. It is a awakening. I don't do many of these uh to tap into our minds. Sit down collectively and talk about it. 50 years of restaurant experience between the two of us, anything goes. End of the day, they say goodbye, you get an acknowledgement, they're coming back.
Speaker 1:They're coming back of course you stop everything for them because they've stopped everything to walk through the door. They're doing their job, we're doing our job, everyone's doing their job. And the best part of what I don't see in a lot of these podcasts and a lot of these interview podcasts no one's talking real, no one's coming out the mouth with what we talk about in the kitchen because they're all being reserved because of that one sponsor they may not gain. I'm not here for that shit man.
Speaker 2:I'm here to talk about what's real for the people listening to it. I used to play that game a little bit early on in my career, but I've been doing it for so long that sponsorships aren't what you're really here for. We're here to like the dinner tables. However many employees I got 140 employees. I work on making sure that they have food on their table every night. You know insurance coverage that they need. Listen, it's a different day and age. Our rates are changing, life is changing, the economy has changed, the inflation has changed. You and I go to bed every day for 50 different reasons on every given day, and there's 52 reasons on top of that To do what we do at a successful level in any city in the United States. Yes, I know, it's the sovereign lady nation and and this is our land and it's the freest country in the world and you have many benefits to it doesn't mean it's easy.
Speaker 1:Doesn't mean everybody doesn't do it when it comes to inflation. Well, I used to get stressed out about it, but. But the more I go that, the more I realize everything's inflated. So why am I stressing? The prices of my menu go up with the inflation and I'm just keep on rolling. We buy it, you buy it, we have to purchase it, they have to purchase it. The same 30% type margin of restaurant fucking operations is the same. So if that has to go up with the market, that's not our fault. We're just going to continue doing it. I'm not stressing about it, it is what it is. You know what I mean. And the day the world or the country stops going out eating because of inflation, that yet has not happened. We just keep raising the prices to match that inflation.
Speaker 1:But we're not raising for more profit, we're raising to keep up to that percentage of operation yeah, stay stabilized the standard operation, standard operating procedure, right, whether it was 20 years ago it was lower based on then but it's still off the same percentages. We're still working off market percentages of where we know we need to be. So no one's really coming at me saying why your price is so high. Everybody gets it, man. Everybody gets it. We're all watching the same news. We're all victims of the same bank, yep, and the bills keep coming in the same way, sure do better get paid in the Sun does it.
Speaker 1:No, no doubt. In the best part about it is wrote on Sunday you go to brunch and still spend your money. Just as fucking quick. It doesn't feel that much. I know I feel. About brunch, yeah, I've never been to a brunch that I liked and I've never fucking thought about having a brunch because I don't understand it. I don't understand it. We did it.
Speaker 2:We don't do it anymore. No, it's tough, man. It's a tough turnaround If you have really successful weekend nights, and that's Friday, saturday and Sunday. Brunch is one of those things. It's a segment, a lot of people enjoy it. But, man, it's hard to get up and motivate a staff that's getting a tip on a $14 steak and eggs and you and me are doing it to the best of our ability with chimney. Five ounce portion, a couple different eggs. It's got to be 15, 16, 17, 18 bucks, you know.
Speaker 1:It's a lot, yeah, but that's not even a lot really Right. My point is during the time of day, the time of eating, I just don't understand it. I don't understand who's going to lunch, brunch, breakfast, lunch? I don't get it. I eat breakfast and I eat fucking lunch. I look forward to both, but I'm not going to sacrifice one and the other to meet them both in the middle. I already have my routine. So I just don't understand brunch.
Speaker 2:Virginia Beach truffle scrambled eggs. What are you charging?
Speaker 1:Truffled. You're talking about white Alba truffle, yeah, man, or truffle oil. Truffle or truffle oil at your restaurant.
Speaker 2:What are we charging? Truffle like truffle, wade alba, truffle, any way you want to do it with truffle alba fresh.
Speaker 1:Okay, fresh truffle alba, for the gram amounts 50 bucks, hey I'm.
Speaker 2:I'm about 70, 75 and that's truthfully, we're not wrong. That's where you need to be. You know you want the truffle, then don't. Luxury spending is 70, 70.
Speaker 1:You're putting more, that's all. Now, if I up my fucking grams on that, of course I'm going 70. So I'm talking about the minimum shaved on top, four or five shaves.
Speaker 2:Shake a little Metropolitan downtown Sherwin-Williams. Tax on that for myself.
Speaker 1:You're not wrong. You're not wrong you're going to go to where you're at for sure.
Speaker 2:Shape truffle, though, is just have enough, like I like getting one or two in having some fun with 10, 12, 15 appetizers enjoying my clientele that enjoys it. I'd rather give you a third of an ounce or a third of a gram or a third of whatever, just based on, and you know, have that, 25 ad, 70 ad, a hundred ad, and I love that you said 50, because that tells me that I'm not far from the truth. Between here and Charlotte, you're right in the middle.
Speaker 2:I want to know, in between there's dollars and cents for real estate.
Speaker 1:But you're also talking about an egg roll. You're not talking about a bowl of risotto or a pasta dish or a cacio e pepe de truffle or something like this. Now we're talking 75, 80. It's a matter of what you're doing with that truffle. Now here's the thing when you come to my place for truffle, you should, because you're going to pay $70 for the truffle on the pasta, but I don't stop until it looks great. I need a little bit more.
Speaker 1:So, everybody, I always lose on truffle season. I have a pound of truffle coming in today. My sous chef is going to pick it up and we have a wine dinner coming up on Tuesday. When I get back from this trip, we're doing a beautiful Plum Jack Cade wine dinner and I have truffles to infuse with some Italian-inspired California cab combos. Right, love it. So I have truffle coming $2,700 a pound right now. Right, love it. So I have truffle coming $2,700 a pound right now. Okay, so people don't understand. Seems like a lot of truffle, but not when you're trying to make $2,700 back. You know what I'm saying Exactly. We're not cutting it like cheap coke in the street or anything like that. We're fucking talking about straight, raw truffle. That's fish scale shit right. So truffle, that's fish scale shit right. So it's crazy how I don't make money off truffle dude. I just want to give it to the people so they can enjoy it and I just want to cover my nut. Yep, that's it, treat your team.
Speaker 2:Treat your staff, how to use them Exactly, Employ them to understand that it's a luxury ingredient and then those members of your clientele that love it, we purvey for that. Any of that I'm not looking at. I'm just looking to make the money back and that's it.
Speaker 2:There's no profit when it comes to those items, just for you everybody at home to understand like our margins are so thin when you bring in a luxury item like that and you push a wine dinner and you meet that beautiful pump jack and cave some of the best. When you have that regional California winery, come in, go check him out in Virginia this Tuesday night To have an ingredient like that and to pair it nicely for the $2,700 or whatever you've spent. It's just a nice thing that separates us from the fucking chance.
Speaker 2:You can't go have truffle at a fucking Olive Garden. You can't go have truffle at Mama Natali's. You can't have truffle at Tony's.
Speaker 1:Profit margins on this Truffle Really good. Lamb, lobster, crab, cav. Profit margins on this truffle really good. Lamb, lobster, caviar, colossal crab Zero no margins. So if it's on our menu, we're only doing it as a luxury to you. We're doing it to show out a little bit, we're doing it because we enjoy the ingredient, we want to work with them, but we're actually covering a nut to bring you back in the door so you can trust the fact that we're always going to go the distance for you. There is no profit on this. If there's an $88 bone-in ribeye on the menu, there's no margin there. Yes, there's margin in pasta.
Speaker 2:Yes, there's stuff there, but it's still it's showcase items Center of the plate items and people like to communally, like to order an entree or entree and a half per three people and then get a ribeye or get a bone in 28 ounce or get a t-bone and have it sliced for the table. We promote that kind of dining. We want shareables. We want people like my best impression of you to come into my restaurant is kind of, let me have it, I'll give you what I think you should have, whether it's a starter, some pasta, some, any pasty, some second, whateveri, whatever we're doing, meat for the table shareables Not everybody has to have a big tomahawk chopper, black hawk chop, you know, but a couple for the table party of ten.
Speaker 2:I like to throw one or two out and just, you can have a little, you can have a lot. That's how we eat, that's how our friends in our circles eat. I just love the whole aspect of it too Just eating together and enjoying the cuts of stuff the truffles, the beef, the lamb, the oysters, the shrimp, the crab. If I didn't have that I'd be really handcuffed in this world, because I love everything.
Speaker 1:Now, speaking about what you love, your meal. We'll do a couple things here for fun, bro, let's check it out. So your meal, comfort, comfort, cold Cleveland day. You're coming into December, end of November, fuck Thanksgiving, I'm not talking about that, that's comfort in itself City chicken's like a staple Cleveland.
Speaker 2:Barberton is a South Akron, you know down South 77.
Speaker 1:Barberton chicken though it's got a little bit of a different breading to it.
Speaker 2:It's like not your standard breading. It's fried, but it's only pan fried. It's flattened, so it's spatchcocked or boned out. And then what she does is she, you know, cream and mushroom soup really nice cheese. It's got to be a grand cru Swiss. You know, my wife does this. She dips her toe in and out of the things I love, but also keeps rooted to her recipes that her mother's a fantastic cook. What's her nationality? Russian, english.
Speaker 1:So you got that? Yeah, good, good, I'm Italian and Irish and we eat.
Speaker 2:My wife's a fantastic cook, but this city chicken is, you know. It just has everything you want about it Layers of flavor, the Swiss interacts with the mushrooms and the chickens got a bite and crispiness to it. It's almost like katsu, but it's Barberton style. She's Russian, she's awesome.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. That's great dude. We sit split of it. Just the fact you're talking about it, I love it because I can tell there's a lot going on there. You know what I'm saying? There's a lot of emotion.
Speaker 2:I don't want to have fun.
Speaker 1:People don't realize that. About chefs, let me tell you something. There's two things. You ask a chef when do you go to eat? Here's the biggest thing I get all the time I don't want to cook for you because why? You can make hamburger helper, you can make pork chops with shake and bake. And because I didn't cook it and you did. I fucking love it. I'm telling you I love it.
Speaker 2:I ain't made no shaken bacon I don't love the. I ain't made no shaken bacon.
Speaker 1:I don't love Bro, uncle Ben's rice Rice-a-roni. I don't give a fuck man, because we eat and we produce this shit so much it's almost like the shoemaker has the worst shoes, type of thing. Chefs don't have time to go home and make gourmet meals. People are like Thanksgiving, I'm coming to your house. No, I want to go to your house. Dude, the stovetop stuffing right. Extra, extra, extra stuffing. Yeah, I don't want the damn. Look man, martha Stewart, I would love to have her Thanksgiving. I guarantee it's amazing. But I would also love my neighbors. Yeah, because it's fucking just delicious.
Speaker 1:I want the cranberry sauce out the can too.
Speaker 2:Yep, these are things that we, that they're just so there, you know A hundred percent and I agree with you a thousand percent about what we truly want. We want to be together with our family, we want to watch a little football, we want to doze off a little bit. By all means, anything goes. I think one more, I think one more, and I'm good for that. I gotta work a little bit on that, I'm gonna work on eating something.
Speaker 2:I love the traditional Thanksgiving. I also agree with you I love not being there for it.
Speaker 1:Favorite Italian dish.
Speaker 2:Cacio e pepe In a wheel. I mean, I got memorable dishes all over the world. Italy, though the portofino on the water, my wife and I had a cacio e pepe. Forget it. Just certain things about Italy. I'm a half Italian, half Irish, so it really gives me an opportunity to study Italy, because Ireland food fucking sucks.
Speaker 1:When you come down to my spot, which you will. I'm going to make you a cacio e pepe.
Speaker 2:So the beauty of that is it's 77 north and south. That's all I take to get down to Charlotte. I'm taking a left or a right, whether I'm coming or going to you, because I want to celebrate your successes, your dishes, your team, the city and the community. It's so much more than just being an active member of the community and a restaurateur. I see the shockwave of events that you bring and do Tuesday night wine dinner, Plum Jack, Kate. If I was there, that's what I would want to do on a Tuesday night. We need and have things to do and develop things to do on off nights, because that's what we do. We love to do it. Nothing's better. Saturdays are cool, Fridays are cool, Thursdays are cool.
Speaker 1:Tuesdays. I love it, I love you. I love you, bro. So listen, man, keep doing what you're doing, keep inspiring, keep bringing in them young chef apprentices, hopefuls, keep driving forward, keep doing the benefits. Doing the benefits, keep supporting your local 81, all that shit, man, and just keep being the fuck you. Can I talk?
Speaker 2:upon that for a second. I mean, there's nothing but support for love.
Speaker 1:Sure, I mean absolutely, there's nothing but love and support for 81.
Speaker 2:There's nothing I wouldn't do, for I got four clubs all around me that have always been more than loving to me. The beauty of brotherhood is you guys come together and there's a genuine consensus for love, and that's just what I love about you guys proud to be a you know, a friend and a support.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, man, we're proud to have you in and that's how I got to know you outside the chef world. So I knew you as a chef but I didn't have the opportunity to actually intervene right, I didn't socialize with you because of it. So it brought us together so many things about the club. There's so many facets of it. We have everything between chefs, businessmen, all kinds of stuff, man, and it's just a great fucking thing. But it allows me to be who I am and it held me accountable to being a fucking accountable person. Really, you know what I mean. Without that I was a damn rogue. You know. My chef life probably wouldn't be where it was without it, because I wasn't had nothing to freaking, settle me down, you know what I'm saying I agree.
Speaker 1:So, chef, I appreciate your time. Bro, we can sit here and chop it up all day long. Do you have any questions for me? Good to go, brother.
Speaker 2:Good to go, man. It's a full hour. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:I'm going to get something to eat now at this fucking lovely place. Come to Cleveland, come to Fahrenheit fame, coming to the Browns, coming to the Cavs, whatever it is you're doing, and hang out a little bit at the bar and see what kind of ruckus I can get into. Ruckus, ruckus, ruckus. In a good way, in a good way. But come to Cleveland, check out Chef Rocco. Thanks for coming out. Thanks for listening.
