Burnt Hands Perspective
This is a raw and unfiltered look into the pu$$ification and state of the restaurant industry as a whole, powered by longtime friends Chef/Owner Antonio Caruana and former bartender turned News Anchor/TV Host Kristen Crowley.
Representing all aspects of the industry from the front to the back of the house we will dig into the juiciest stories and pull from decades of experience in one of the sexiest and most exciting industries in the world...the food and beverage industry.
From international chefs, sommeliers, industry pros, and so much more, this show will cover all of it without a filter. You turn up the volume; we'll turn up the heat.
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Burnt Hands Perspective
Ep 17 - From Military Missions to Private Club's Personal Chef with Chef Eddie Lee
Chef Eddie Lee's journey from the Navy's elite Naval Special Warfare community to becoming the executive chef at Norfolk's prestigious Town Point Club is nothing short of remarkable. Unveiling his story of resilience, Chef Eddie shares how an unexpected family connection and a twist of fate led him to embrace a new passion for culinary arts. Despite initial reluctance, he found himself thriving in the world of flavors and long kitchen hours, drawing parallels between the camaraderie of military life and the bustling energy of a mom-and-pop restaurant.
As we venture into the world of exclusive dining, Chef Eddie provides a unique glimpse into the challenges and rewards of being a club chef in cities like DC. The loyalty and sense of community among the staff mirror the camaraderie he experienced in his early culinary days, but with a sophisticated twist. Chef Eddie discusses how he balances tradition with innovation, as he caters to the diverse tastes of long-standing members, and how a simple incident involving a denied cheeseburger shaped his determination and culinary ambition.
The episode also delves into the influence of culinary icons such as Anthony Bourdain and Jamie Oliver, shedding light on how these chefs have left their mark on the industry. Chef Eddie shares his thoughts on the importance of culinary giving programs, highlighting events like Chef Fest for Easter Seals, and reflects on evolving industry standards in the wake of movements like Me Too. His candid insights and personal stories create an engaging narrative that reveals the challenges and triumphs of navigating a culinary career marked by creativity, discipline, and an unwavering commitment to excellence.
Connect with Chef Eddie Lee at https://www.instagram.com/eddie.leee/
or at Town Point Club at https://www.invitedclubs.com/clubs/town-point-club
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Another chef in my kitchen. Another chef in my kitchen.
Speaker 2:Now you're excited. I am excited.
Speaker 1:So, chef Eddie Lee, here you are, buddy. Usually I go to see you at the club, that's right.
Speaker 2:That's right. We're so fucking busy. Hold on, let's clarify at the club no, no, no.
Speaker 1:We're going to leave that a mystery. Which club? We're leaving that a mystery? Because that's it. No money gun. Chuck it in the air, let it rain, chef. You can't coins. Let it hail.
Speaker 1:You drove huge distance of like 20 miles to be here I know it came a long way that came all the way from pungo to here oh yeah, it's true, come all the way this way, now, now let's, let's get into who you are and what you do and why you're in my kitchen and why you're on our show and the whole fucking world is going to hear about about this, because you have a unique story in the world and that's why I want to talk to you, because we all have different avenues. We go down as chefs, right, and we all end up where we're going to be. We all have our executive mindset where we want to be, our land as an executive chef, right. So let's start where you are now and then we we'll backtrack. We'll do that, all right, tell us where you're from and what you got going on.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm Eddie Lee. I'm the executive chef for the Town Point Club in downtown Norfolk, in South of the World Trade Center.
Speaker 1:And this is a social club.
Speaker 3:It is a business social club. It's where the area's elite, the influential people, politicians, everyday people. It's a members-only club. Influential people, politicians, everyday people. It's a members-only club, so you can see anyone from the mayor, the mayor's in there all the time. There's actually a dish on the menu the mayor's meal, what he normally eats.
Speaker 1:So influential people, meaning people of stature. It's not a cheap club to be in. Let's just be straight the fuck up. My sister's a doctor and she's in it.
Speaker 3:Let's put it there, exactly, exactly. So she's in it.
Speaker 1:Let's put it there, exactly, she's doing better than me because I'm not in the club. You're not in the club, yet I sneak in the back kitchen, though I'm good I got the VIP tree.
Speaker 2:He just puts a jacket on and sneaks in.
Speaker 3:Tony walks in. It's like, oh, it's only Tony, it's just Tony.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do that. We have a tendency.
Speaker 1:How did you get there? That's where you are now backing up to your chef career. You were in the military. Yes, you were in the Navy. What did you do in the Navy?
Speaker 3:Within the NSW community we rode around on subs a lot got people like her husband. Hello. Oh, it's attacking you Got people, like her husband, out to sea with the different dry decks on the subs and such swim outs. All of that great.
Speaker 2:So the restaurant industry? Most people don't know what NSW is, so Naval Special Warfare. So that's the elite operators, top tier. So you were a part of that group Right, which, again, you're not a small guy.
Speaker 3:So how did you fit in a sub? I used to be bigger than.
Speaker 2:That's right. I had a lot of head wounds, okay.
Speaker 3:I think, I had TBI from walking in the south Just smashing knee knockers upside down and shit all day long.
Speaker 1:That's so funny. So I was in the Navy as well. Most people know that. So thank you for your service. You as well. Thank us for our service here. Where the fuck we go? So she's a Navy wife or spouse, right? Because he's retired though. So you're still one or you're retired.
Speaker 2:You're still one, yeah, but you went through it. I went through it. A lot of Navy knowledge here on this panel.
Speaker 1:This lineup is loaded. We are, anyway. So you started out. So you were in the Navy, you started out. So, right away, you're drinking, you're partying. You already know that life. How did you go from that to fucking cooking man?
Speaker 3:Well, I got out of the Navy, got out with some injuries, so couldn't do this, couldn't do that. You know, couldn't do this, couldn't do that. So I was like all right, and ironically, one of the things they offered was you know, you can go in and handle supply. Or even at the time they were like trying to boost up their culinary so you know, go, you know culinary food service. I was like I know I'd never do that and ironically, here I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you did do that, actually got out and the test results are in, and you in fact did do that so, uh, when I got out, uh, just, I needed something to do different and you know it's.
Speaker 3:I actually had the whim of black water and thank god I did not go down that route. And then I fell into the culinary world. My wife's family at the time owned a little restaurant. Uh, just watching the collaboration there and the community that they had within it intrigued me and everything else, and then got into it and then my tenacity took over. You know, I started as like a nobody, yeah, and got in, and then Anyone who somebody usually does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly what timeline was that? What year was that? Back in the 90s? Okay, so this was yeah, yeah exactly I had been.
Speaker 3:Was that? What year was that? Back in the 90s? Okay, yeah, exactly. I've been in it for a while and uh, um, through, uh one thing to another, got into a little mom and pop restaurant work to piss out of us. You know we're talking. You know 80 hour work weeks 80 hours to close.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know, thinking it's normal.
Speaker 3:Thinking it's normal, yeah, exactly no overtime everything else just beaten abuse, beaten abuse, uh.
Speaker 3:And then got out that, got picked up to a country club and liked that camaraderie and the flow of it and my tenacity took over and you know I had arrogance but I was holding it back. You know I was new in the business so I really didn't have clout to bark with Sure. But when someone told me I could not have a cheeseburger because I wasn't a sous chef, well, those are for sous. I was making this burger and everything else, and a sous chef comes up, says what are you doing?
Speaker 1:it's a cheeseburger lunch.
Speaker 3:No, you can't have that. You're not a sous what are you supposed? To have. So, oh, a, exactly like nothing, whatever.
Speaker 1:It's a fucking cheeseburger Bread, and cheese sandwich. Fuck that sous chef.
Speaker 3:You don't take a burger from my big ass, so right away that was it? I was like I am doing whatever I have to do, whatever I have to smash to get where I need it to be, to get to a burger, yeah that cheeseburger was going to be mine.
Speaker 1:Period, and when you get it, you probably pass them around like cheeseburger for you, Cheeseburger for you.
Speaker 3:I was like I did Oprah Everyone gets a cheeseburger, fucking cheeseburger. One thing led to another, not to cut you off.
Speaker 1:I'm doing that in my kitchen, Nobody's getting a fucking cheeseburger.
Speaker 2:Sorry to the line here. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1:That's it. No one's getting a cheeseburger.
Speaker 2:Sorry guys, I know they're going to blame you. All right, so post-cheeseburger. You made it Post-cheeseburger Next step.
Speaker 3:Got into the country clubs, all that and ironically my brother-in-law is a chef and he was with this group. That DC Different little restaurants and clubs up there and got invited, met the right people and hey, why don't you come on up? Dc is a different animal. Dc is wild crazy. You can make a lot of money, but Jesus, lord, corruption.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Talk about it, don't be afraid.
Speaker 1:Any type of city with that is going to happen.
Speaker 2:Roots and money. Yes, of course, or power and money, and that one in particular.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That one in particular. So, moving on, Chef, so when you're in the club now, you're cooking for about how many people are in the club and dining. Now let me tell you this, Dining is part of the perks of being in this club. That's what got my sister, that's what got me interested in learning about. It is because that's one of the biggest things is the dining room, the facility, and that's where a lot of the socializing happens in this club, of course, because it's not a restaurant, it's a private club with dining and events and just different options.
Speaker 3:People, office away from office.
Speaker 1:So the dinner time is open, typical dinner hours they come up lunchtime.
Speaker 2:You're open all day, right we're open for breakfast.
Speaker 3:One of the perks with the membership is a lot of our members get free breakfast, so we put out the little breakfast bar in the morning.
Speaker 1:Every morning and Monday through Friday. Okay.
Speaker 3:They come. Yeah, eight o'clock we open.
Speaker 1:How much time are you working? Do you have to have a split crew there for that?
Speaker 3:I actually have a real small crew and that I think comes from the military, where, you know, within that community it wasn't big teams, it was more consolidated, specialized operators and that's sort of my mentality with these clubs. Now, At the hotels I was in it was an army, Sure, the clubs. It's sort of my mentality with these clubs now At the hotels I was in.
Speaker 1:It was an army.
Speaker 3:Sure, the clubs, it's more of a smaller crew. You know I've got one guy that comes in the morning, opens it up. Thank God, bless him. Tommy's incredible. He is one of the most you know dependable and reliable guys you can get. Without Tommy's we're fucking done. I have my Tommy's, if you will, right.
Speaker 1:And they're very important man.
Speaker 2:So fuck on Tommy.
Speaker 1:Tommy, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Tommy's been there 22 years. Jesus, oh, my gosh. There's a lot of you know, tenure and loyalty to the club.
Speaker 1:That is insane, yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, the club's great for the members. The club's great for the members, but it's also great for the staff.
Speaker 2:Okay, tell people some of the differences in that Just the environment, the hours.
Speaker 3:The pay Servers make really good money there. They get paid more than normal. They have a tip share where they're getting money from all the events.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 3:So you know it benefits everyone to. You know, watch each other's back and take care of each other.
Speaker 1:So not only is it a club for people to come in, but the workforce or the kitchen brigade or the whole restaurant forum is also their own type of club, right? So you guys are almost acting like your own club there. It's almost like don't get voted out of the island type of thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly Right, don't get out there. And that happens, trust me, we'll happens. Trust me, we'll walk around like whoa yeah, yeah, you fail exactly, exactly, it's you know burn him at the stake. Yeah right, it's bad, it's bad, so so it's accidents, do you?
Speaker 1:ever? Do you ever miss like? So you have the, you have a regimen, you have a fucking routine. Obviously, with a club, you're gonna have a, there's a, there's a redundancy. Where do you stay creative, my man? How do you stay creative in that mindset? Now I see, and I've always followed and I know your stuff. Of course you have a lot of different events, you host the different dinners, you go around different things, but on a normal night menu, where does your creative come from when you know that so many of the people that have been going there for so many years like this, this guy, this lady, likes this Does it ever bog you down?
Speaker 3:No, that's where it comes from. You get to know your members. You get to know that. You know Mr X and Mrs Y. They like lamb, they like this, they like duck. There's certain things that like crab cakes. There's one crab cake, a little appetizer we have on the menu, if I take that off.
Speaker 2:I'll be burned Like it's a mutiny, like they're going to kill you If go missing. We know why exactly got it um, I, there's she, crab soup.
Speaker 3:You know just different things that we cannot touch and we just keep it elevated and keep it at that standard.
Speaker 1:Um, uh, different different things like the duck and the lamb, uh, uh, chicken oscar uh, this all helps you in your ordering process, your, your, your food costs, your percentages. You can really see that's a good point because more systematic yeah it is a business.
Speaker 3:I mean, we're in a creative world, but boils down, it is a business and we answer to people for that with the numbers and knock on wood. Thank god, numbers are good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely so you do you ever feel ostracized from the rest of the chef world? Sometimes, like when you see chefs like me dealing with other chefs and being called up for different types of awards or being nominated for things, do you find yourself ever?
Speaker 3:like shit, man. Come on, I win awards. No, you win a lot, so I know that We'll get to those.
Speaker 1:You and the mans trust me. No, no, I'm not saying that, but what I'm saying. Do you ever feel different about that?
Speaker 3:Sometimes, Sometimes Almost to the point where if I walk in a room with a group of you know if we've got 20 chefs from the area in an event and I walk into the room, it's different. You can feel a different vibe. Because they don't really know you, because they're in the club and they don't go to the club or something, either that, or they know of me or whatever, and there's certain, I don't know, a mystique, good and bad.
Speaker 3:Sure Some people will approach and introduce and some people won't, thinking oh, he's too cocky or he's whatever.
Speaker 1:No, no, I'm not what I think a lot of them don't understand because of the how eclectic that the club is right with the echelon that it's at. I don't think a lot of people understand the level you're fucking cooking at every day, because these people have a very high expectation and if you decide one day you're going to act like an asshole. Now they really know it because they know you. You have a high standard. You don't just have customers walking in. They have a little bad experience, they go home. You get bitched at complaining. Yeah, I'm sure I can just imagine, bro, how people can be like he didn't put the cream on the left side of the plate like he typically does. You know, I'm saying I could just imagine that just based off of my experience, you know, with regulars, let alone exactly like in in restaurants and such like here.
Speaker 3:I know that you get the certain people that, like you know they don't want this or substitute that or whatever and everything else, and we'll definitely take care of that at the club. You know we have to. I mean, that's what we're there for. We're we're there amenity.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And sometimes the extremeness of it. You know what it it's like the penguins smiling away boys, yeah, yeah, exactly. I say that so many times in the kitchen and my sous chef.
Speaker 1:I love him to death.
Speaker 3:He's worked for me for a long time. We've been buddies forever his name tommy too I know he's, he's a tommy, but uh, we call him zoe. And uh, zoe is just like what do you mean? He wants everything separated. What do you mean? Nothing can touch you know really, is here we go.
Speaker 2:But that's the clientele you deal with Right right.
Speaker 1:So now, when you get inspired, you do a lot of stuff. You do a lot of dinners, you talk about the awards you've won. I know you're decorated. That's why you're here. I don't really like to talk to people who don't know really what level we're at and talking about.
Speaker 3:you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:So we have a really good relationship because we understand each other well and so does a lot of people in this industry. You have a lot of recognition dinners, meaning Anthony Bourdain type dinners, or what other chef dinners do you represent?
Speaker 3:The chef's tables. A few years ago we started a chef's table supper series and we did every month. You know we wanted something to give them that they wouldn't catch anywhere down Grandview Street or just go anywhere and say, oh, I can have this down the street. So we did a Chef's Table Supper series and started off with Anthony Bourdain Tribute to him on Anthony Bourdain Day and did a very ambitious 15 course menu Very ambitious.
Speaker 3:Knocked it down to about 12 for service. Still, 12 courses, that's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah, it was one of those. Afterwards it's like kick me in the freaking head.
Speaker 1:Just the mise en place alone for that. Oh yeah, exactly, is enough to talk about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my dish stewards were over there like how many plates. Yeah right, but we keep it like at a baker's dozen. So it's, you know, 13 people. They're paying a high you know a nice price for it. But it's worth it. I make sure of that. I make sure it's over worth it. You know I'll take a hit on a food cost if but the margin's still there. But I'll take a hit on food.
Speaker 1:Sure, so you do different chefs. So you did Bourdain. What other chefs have you done?
Speaker 3:We've done Bourdain. We've done one for Julia Child, one for Charlie Trotter Sure.
Speaker 1:Trotter was awesome.
Speaker 3:He's more fine dining little tweaks and brought the tweezers out. You know all the microgreens We've done James Beard. We did one, you'd like this one. We did one playing off of Sopranos when Sopranos was coming back out and everything and did Artie Bucco, oh nice. That one was actually a really good one.
Speaker 1:What was your funnest one? Which one did you like to emulate the best? Which one did you feel more comfortable at home doing?
Speaker 3:Actually we did one for last year when, or a couple years ago, when Something in the Water came, so we did somethings in the water seafood dinner and that one was really really good. We had some really fun play on, got some different product in that we normally wouldn't carry or the members normally wouldn't order.
Speaker 1:So you have some B-roll of this stuff, you have pictures of these images and we're going to show some of that stuff and let people see it.
Speaker 2:Really fun dishes too, and I mean you. But you also do a lot of community events, a lot of charity events, cause I know you work with, like Peter Decker, like you've worked with a lot of those people We've done the Decker foundation all that for St.
Speaker 3:Jude's before, we used to raise a lot of money for them. We've done a like monthly. We do a cocktails with a cause yeah, yeah, we have one tomorrow night, a matter of fact but we do those where we raise money for different things, like the seal monument.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you did that too.
Speaker 3:We raised a good amount of money for the seal monument. That was awesome. And then, you know, going to the opening ceremony, your husband was there and him and I were sitting across from each other like waving each other, like you know, hi, and I was able to take my son and he enjoyed it. He's in the midst of some of the most badass men and women because they support him, but the badass people in the world were there and it was hot as hell that day. But Mark and I were like how you doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're good, we're here, Everything is good.
Speaker 1:So what about so it seems you have a lot of if you were to go to the celebrity chef thing and be inspired by them. I noticed you do a lot of things with Bourdain. I'm just asking you your take, what was your take on somebody like Anthony Bourdain? What did he do for you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Bourdain, just with the attitude, the straightforwardness. Yeah, Love Wolfgang, Sure Wolfgang. You know he's held our ages combined and he's still doing it, he's still walking in and touching the lamb and touching the food and the product and telling people no Right, it's chefs that are in it. Yeah, I've met the. We won't say his name, we'll just give you his initials Bobby Flay. But beyond cocky.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But back it up. And then I've had people that competed with some of these chefs in different events and at the end, like I had, a friend beat Bobby Flay. And he reached out to shake his hand and Bobby pulled back and walked off. Oh gosh, what the hell is that? It's not I don't act that way, so I don't know what that is Exactly. I'm just like geez okay.
Speaker 1:So the Bourdain thing for me I loved the show. I loved, like you said, the attitude and all that stuff. The only thing I didn't like was when I got into his second book when he was kind of it felt like he was just kind of like demoralizing people for coming into our industry, which kind of threw me for a loop on that time. I kind of lost it at that point so I stopped following. At that point A lot of people were going to look at me and say you know what the fuck you're talking about. Listen, dude, I do know what I'm talking about, because if anyone partied more than that fucking dude, it's me, and I didn't even, and that's a fucking fact. So you can talk about it all you want to. Some of us lived it. So that's the easy part growing up in this industry.
Speaker 1:if you didn't party like that back then you're probably still not in the industry say anything about bucatini no, you did not really know exactly what you can do with a pin a pin shot, but it all goes down to um. You know the. The chefs I liked that I get inspired are the ones I learned from the most. And, and be honest with you, there's two chefs celebrity chefs, let's call them celebrity chefs that kind of of inspire me. One of them is really I don't even know. You know, I don't know if people remember him so much, but Alton Brown, one of the best shows on TV. You learn so much from that dude Phenomenal. He's great, teaches so many tricks, tips. He's the inventor of the fucking hack. If anyone's hacking, it was him.
Speaker 2:He invented the Original TikToker.
Speaker 1:So, with that being said, we had that. And then you got to love Jamie Oliver man. That dude is just whipping out shit daily. He's got his own channel. You know what I'm saying? I don't know if I can make specials every night. He's got a damn TV show about it every day, yep. So I'm thinking to myself. You know, these guys are constantly either having a writing team or a research network out there to get this or something which I don't have, unfortunately. I just go off my own flavors and stuff. So being my own chef in my own restaurants allows me to create and work with my own palate. Do you have that luxury, do you have that freedom at the club, or do you still have to maintain an expectation of someone else?
Speaker 3:A little of both. I mean, like, when I hire people I tell them in the interviews you're going to see everything from fried chicken to foie gras, nothing too trivial, nothing too bold. We've got some members that come in that they and I cannot exaggerate this they come in five, six days a week in a row and they'll go in the cigar lounge. You know we're blessed to have a nice, really nice cigar lounge in the club and you know we've got a clientele that goes in there and there's a couple of gentlemen they come in there and they'll order the same thing over and over. It might be chicken wings, it might be the shrimp, it might be, you know, the garlic.
Speaker 1:Cigar food Like appetizers.
Speaker 3:One thing, that's what they like yeah, they come in there religiously for that. And others come in and they're like surprise me.
Speaker 2:And that's cool. So you get both ends of the spectrum. Yeah, but you do specials. I mean you do specials all the time.
Speaker 1:So it gives you at least a little creativity, absolutely so you get an outlet Now. Your buffets are amazing.
Speaker 3:What do you do on Thanksgiving, man Thanksgiving again back to the club being a good environment for the staff. We're closed on Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1:We're closed on Black Friday oh wow, oh perfect, I don't go shopping. They actually get the holiday yeah right on.
Speaker 3:Ginger's online ordering. I'll see Amazon.
Speaker 2:She's spending your money. You love that baby. Today's the day too.
Speaker 1:It's Amazon Day. Exactly I'm here she.
Speaker 3:I'm here, she's awake, she's at home, oh Jesus Anyway.
Speaker 1:So let me ask you this what do you have coming up? I know you have the big chef, the festival, Chef Fest.
Speaker 3:Yeah, In March, like she was talking about, we do different things, supporting different charities or different backings and such In March, looking way ahead. But they plan it so well. Easter Seals, they're doing a Chef Fest and we're talking about getting 15, 20 chefs trying to get you in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll talk more after these messages.
Speaker 2:He's trying to get you to commit On camera.
Speaker 3:We're getting 15, 20 top chefs around the area and do just a chef's fest. It's for the Easter Seals. They're doing this culinary program for challenge students, young and old, teaching them how to cook, and it's really, really cool the videos and things. We're actually going out there here in a couple weeks to work with them and you know it's cool how they want to learn and the attention to detail they have. And if they mess up, you know what they love it. You know it's not a mess up, it's okay.
Speaker 2:We're fun. Yeah, we're fun. Well, I mean, we had Chef Tony from Chicago come down, and they do similar things in their community. So for you to create that in Virginia, like there really hasn't been things like that.
Speaker 3:So that will be really fun. That's coming up in March, so save your date for that. We're looking at 400, 500, 600 people for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's going to be great. Keep me in the loop on that. I definitely want to be part of it. That'll be fun. We'll be part of it. Maybe we'll even go there with this, yeah we can actually do the show.
Speaker 2:We need an emcee yeah, so you know, try to point at We've worked together on cooking. I actually cooked with you, you did a cooking show Most people don't know that I actually can cook.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, you had me in your place cooking with you, like you were the only person I know that can take, and get 25, maybe 26 hours a day. You know I mean, you were the most productive lady in the world. Family time this time. Personal time. Get your hair done time and still oh, your hair done time.
Speaker 1:I've got to keep up with her dude, you don't have any hair, I'll come and do a cooking show for you.
Speaker 2:We did a healthy cooking show. It's like you asked me. We support our friends in the industry. We knew each other from the restaurants in downtown Norfolk. It was never a no.
Speaker 3:It was never a let me see or whatever. She's in there. I got her a chef coat and she's like I need to pick it up early why I need to bedazzle it. Really I need to take that shirt, and it needs to be fitted. How?
Speaker 1:do you get a boxy chef coat on? I can't look.
Speaker 2:No, I got to look snatched.
Speaker 1:So, on the what you're talking about with the Easter Seals and the special needs, saying I'm working on something quite unique myself with the Virginia Gentleman, which is another type of club and we're working on doing a gardening thing where I'm going to produce a garden with these people as well.
Speaker 1:I have a daughter who's special needs as well and she's going to head it up and be the thing of it all, so it's to give her something to do. She's 21 years old and we're going to really work on this. So we're going to plant a lot of basil, a lot of herbs, a lot of produce so we can have the special needs people growing these and learning how to cook them and also bring them to my restaurants so we can have actually farm to table, if you will.
Speaker 3:You know, grown to table. One of our members actually brought you basil before because yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, uh, alan, yeah, he's a great guy.
Speaker 1:So we, we had a. We have a lot of fun with it. Now you, you're in the trade center right. So at the end of gramby street is shadowed by a t, and down is my little restaurant, and I'm always looking up there every time saying you got the best fucking view in the city.
Speaker 3:It's the best view in the whole of Harvard. You look out of your kitchen. We've got the huge curved balcony right there that overlooks Bush and Town Point Park.
Speaker 1:The harbor. So you're looking over the USS Wisconsin right there. Yeah, it's beautiful, nauticus.
Speaker 3:We've got the when Harbor Fest is there.
Speaker 2:That's right there you have a front row seat to everything it's inspirational cooking though.
Speaker 1:So sometimes when I come in here and I'm by myself, I look around and just the bustle of people out here helps me get creative, because I'm just thinking those people want to go somewhere, they want to eat somewhere. In my mind that's what's happening. They might not even be fucking hungry for all I know, but in my mind, seeing that gets me into that zone. So if I was in your position, as the city that you're, you're chefing in and a lot of those people don't even realize what's up there, Right, right, I mean they don't even realize what you're doing because of the type of club that it is.
Speaker 1:So when you see people coming into this industry, let's get to that. You have a different, you have a. You have a small crew, which means you have a more refined crew, which means you probably have a bigger pool to pull from, because you don't need so many of them.
Speaker 3:So, side note, we are hiring Well let's talk about that.
Speaker 2:I know Well, yeah, everybody.
Speaker 1:So hiring people now that's where I'm going with this. When somebody walks into your place with a job interview dude, are you getting the same thing I am sometimes or they're showing up and they're not even prepared to even look like they cook, or anything like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, without question. We've been in the business long enough to where you can read people. I never judge a book by the cover, but sometimes, damn, the cover is just so ragged you can judge it.
Speaker 1:You've got to judge a book by a cover. Sometimes, when they're walking into your fucking kitchen dirty, that's cover number one that failed. If their backside of them is dirtier than the front, then the backside of that book failed. So what do you got to do now? We have to listen to the bullshit in between. Why do I have to even go past that? If you're going to walk into my kitchen dirty the first minute and I mean dirty, I don't even mean dirty, I mean disheveled.
Speaker 1:I'm that articulate. If you even walk in my kitchen through the doors not the kitchen so much, but walking through the outside doors with a chef coat on You're not going to impress me with that. That to me is disgusting because you're not walking into my kitchen with that chef coat on. I don't know what the hell you did outside them doors. You know what I'm saying. You could have laid. That shows that there's not a lot of etiquette. When I would go for jobs, I would bring a garment bag and a chef roll period. If they show up to my kitchen, I don't even have a chef roll, bro. What is happening? Is there a lack of expectation out there that I want to bring back? I want to make sure my goal is to bring back the old school driven etiquette of the kitchen.
Speaker 3:Mine as well, and there's got to be a fine line somewhere with that. But it's like you said before, like coming up in the game and everything. We wouldn't do that, and if we did, we got corrected in a way that we will never forget.
Speaker 1:And if we try and do that now?
Speaker 3:Now it's oh my God, I'm offended, oh, I'm triggered.
Speaker 1:The bottom line is well, they quit, that's the thing they quit. They walk out and quit. So it's not even a matter of getting in trouble. It's not even a matter of me too and all that bullshit. You know what I mean. I don't give a shit about that. That's a whole other story. But when you walk in here me because now you give up You're such a pussy, you give up already. You know what I'm saying and that's what I'm seeing. More than anything, it has nothing to do with being woke or hurting someone's feelings. It has to do with the fact that they'll just fucking quit Like they got nothing else going on. There's so many other options. They their game, whatever they do, and what happened.
Speaker 3:I've got an interview coming up later today, later on this afternoon.
Speaker 1:Give them hell man. Come out of here fired up and tell them right away you're a fucking pussy.
Speaker 3:Just come on over and be like we'll double tap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, two chefs. Who the fuck are you? Yeah, yeah, you look damn near 30. Exactly.
Speaker 1:But you know it's the whole Me Too movement can't speak for any other um, any other, uh, occupation, yeah, okay, I don't know what goes on in hollywood. I don't know what goes on in the rap music or the rock and roll music, shit. I don't know what goes behind them scenes. But I know one thing okay, when it comes to the me too movement in the kitchen famous chef got hit with it one time mario, all them guys, and I just don't understand why people just don't say hold on a second. You walked into the same fucking party. I did. Ho, yeah, or dude, or whatever the fuck you are. You walked into the same door. I did. You know. I'm saying now, all of a sudden, 10 years later, you're a little upset because your tits were out or you were doing coke off the table and you got caught, or whatever the hell it was pretty much you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:that's, that's, um, you're dead, so I don't. So that me too thing to me is absolute bullshit. You can literally destroy somebody now with no evidence, no proof and no accountability. So nine times out of ten these people who are going to do this, their accountability is fucking shot or not even existing. You just say, oh, he touched me on my ass. Yeah, I did. You know what I do.
Speaker 2:I do it all the time we fuck with each other all the time you touch everybody on the ass. I yeah, I did. You know what I do? I do it all the time. We fuck with each other, all the time you touch everybody on the ass. Hell yeah, it's equal opportunity. I was going fuck. Good game Black. You know what I'm saying? Exactly Good game.
Speaker 1:We do this shit all day long. You know what I'm saying. It's just the way it is. It's a kitchen yeah, don't go away, man, and you can be as woke as you want in the kitchen, right, but it's not going to go away. The problem doesn't get any worse. The weeds are no different now than they were 20 years ago. Yeah, exactly how you fucking deal with them, though, is different, but it doesn't change the problem, right? So if you don't handle the problem right now, problems are not forgiving, problems are not woke. The problem doesn't slow down when it's in the middle of a fucking grease fire and say hold on everybody, let's not offend anyone, let's burn slower so they can get a chance to grasp it. You know what I'm saying? No, you say get the fuck out of my way. You asshole. What did you do? You pushed them out of the way and you put the fire out Next thing. You know they'll come back two years later. You pushed them, beat them up, broke Identification of the industry.
Speaker 2:That's what it's, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm here, I'm true. Grit, bring back the bully, yeah.
Speaker 3:There's a couple of chefs I apprenticed under were old school. I like the one chef, Chef Harper. He was the first American to graduate the Culinary Institute of London in 67.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 3:So like he would be pissed off right now because my sleeves are rolled up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, it's is that. That's why I cut mine off there. You go for real.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, just like he would bastardize you if you did anything like you had to be the, the epitome of immaculation, to work with them, and I know chefs that would be mad at me for having my name on my, on my, on my jacket, stuff like that. So you're talking about jackets, how many? You talking about hiring and all this. God bless them, you know, bless their hearts, the uh culinary students that are coming out sure uh, some are great, some are awesome.
Speaker 3:They're going to be great in the industry and you know we're going to be lucky to get some of them. Some of them need to go be a florist bro, you know what don't let me earn this jacket let me just don't correct.
Speaker 1:So let me cut in on here. This goes back to our, our industry. Man, that goes to the same reason as fucking. This is why we have so many. It's delusion, it's deluded, deluded. It's deluded, so we have.
Speaker 1:If you have 15 schools in a region, if you have five schools in a region, right, how can they be? How can one of them be better than the other, when the fucking professors or the teachers or the chefs that are working them are also 5 or 10 or 15, once you have two or three in a class? So when you're bringing in all these people to teach these people, you're diluting that as well. So once you have all these schools going on now, you have to staff them with all these people. So at some point in time, the quality of what's going out to the student is just as detrimental as the student themselves, right?
Speaker 1:So if they're not getting right exactly, if they're getting a watered down version of this and they're coming in our kitchen, it's not only their fault, right, it's the industry's fault, because those people, most of the time cooking, don't want to cook anymore, because they want to stay home on the weekends and watch football. I get it. Okay, I get it, but that's why you're in the school now. So how are you going to teach somebody less than what I'm going to teach them in a week? And we get mad at these students. I had a student come in here as a thing, and he was sitting back there within three, 30 minutes 30 minutes to an hour. He was sitting in the back, he ordered chicken from across the street right there and he was sitting in the hallway during service on his phone eating chicken.
Speaker 2:Oh shit. Sitting on the floor, yeah, that's not good.
Speaker 1:Sous chef at the time, fired him right away, sent him down the road because he needs to learn. That's not how it's going to happen. Yeah, so I am with you. I am also. I am with you that students coming through aren't getting the proper training. And that is definitely a factor of it so I think, I think the industry as a whole needs to stand the fuck up, man, you know, I mean not, not just the ones we can everyone keep playing.
Speaker 3:I know different podcasts you've already done you've talked about code, but covid is not the excuse. Covid is not the crutch. Covid's gone. You know it's, it's over. Yeah, stop using that as an excuse. Stop saying, oh, I need this, I need this, I need that. I'll COVID this. No man up, buck up, shut the fuck up and get up. And get up, get up and do your thing, do your job.
Speaker 1:Do your thing. You can't create, you can't be inventive and you can't do all that stuff if you're not willing to buck up and at least go to work first. You gotta have a passion in. We love you being here. We are running low on this time because I could talk to you all day about this shit.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:But let's get together. I want to do something with you on the chef fest thing. We want to come over there and check that out. We definitely want to be part of that, and then we can continue these conversations on all day long, dude.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, where can people find the club too?
Speaker 3:So tell everybody where you can find the club World Trade Center at 101 West Main Street down in downtown Norfolk.
Speaker 1:Just look up, yeah, just look up A big curved building.
Speaker 3:Can't miss it If you are interested in membership. Talking about tenure and such, kim's our membership director, kim Holt. She's been there 20, 21 years Wow, so she's the lady that handles all the membership. She really makes the club work.
Speaker 1:You know, we're just're just the amenities.
Speaker 2:We're the back burner, we're a very good amenity, so we appreciate you, we all have our part and I really look forward to seeing the B-roll.
Speaker 1:You've got some beautiful work, chef. You do some great platings. You're very articulate with your platings. You're very articulate when you do these, chef tributes.
Speaker 3:They come out really well. The chef tables look really well. It's right in line. We've got the wickedly dark dining affair coming up here in a couple weeks.
Speaker 2:Nice, that'll be fun. Oh yeah, that'll be fun. And he'll make me churros whenever I come in fresh, because he knows that's what I want. I love it. I even texted her last night you want churros? I?
Speaker 3:wouldn't say no, I being in this industry. It's more than a job, it's more than a career, it's a lifestyle.
Speaker 1:It's not going nowhere, it's like being a military spouse.
Speaker 3:You've got to have a chef spouse. My wife, ginger, is awesome about supporting me and getting the normality of my hours and such I can come home super late. I show up, come home early, like the other night. She's like what's wrong.
Speaker 2:What's wrong with you? And she's hot, so cheers to that buddy, Okay Well listen, chef.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much. I'm going to salute you here real quick and, like we always say, about now, ciao for now, check us out and thanks for tuning in. Hit that.
