Burnt Hands Perspective
This is a raw and unfiltered look into the pu$$ification and state of the restaurant industry as a whole, powered by longtime friends Chef/Owner Antonio Caruana and former bartender turned News Anchor/TV Host Kristen Crowley.
Representing all aspects of the industry from the front to the back of the house we will dig into the juiciest stories and pull from decades of experience in one of the sexiest and most exciting industries in the world...the food and beverage industry.
From international chefs, sommeliers, industry pros, and so much more, this show will cover all of it without a filter. You turn up the volume; we'll turn up the heat.
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Burnt Hands Perspective
Ep 28 - Thick Eats: Ethical Food Blogging - What makes a REAL Food Critic on Instagram?
The true value of restaurant reviews comes from those who understand both sides of the dining experience. Local food blogger and influencer, Anthony from Thick Eats, joins Chef Tony and KC to discuss how his family's 37-year Lebanese restaurant business shaped his approach to food content creation for Instagram and beyond.
Starting Thick Eats during the pandemic, Anthony set out with a clear purpose: to spotlight restaurants deserving attention rather than chasing trends. "I was seeing restaurants that I personally enjoyed struggling," he explains, describing his motivation to create content that genuinely helps businesses. This perspective stands in stark contrast to many modern food influencers who prioritize aesthetics over substance with ZERO experience in a restaurant.
We get into the evolution of food criticism from the brutal newspaper critics of decades past to today's social media landscape where anyone can post reviews without accountability. Anthony positions himself in this ecosystem as what the hosts dub an "ethical blogger" – someone committed to honesty, fairness, and transparency. His process involves personally vetting restaurants before featuring them, initially paying for his own meals, and refusing to promote establishments he doesn't genuinely enjoy.
What makes Anthony's content amazing is his understanding of restaurant operations. Growing up in his family's Mediterranean restaurant, Azar's Mediterranean Specialties, he learned firsthand about ingredient quality, cultural dining traditions, and service styles. This knowledge allows him to educate his audience about different dining experiences – like explaining why fine dining establishments pace their service differently than casual eateries.
Though social media growth presents challenges in today's saturated market, Anthony remains committed to quality over quantity. His measure of success isn't follower count but seeing people tag restaurants he's promoted during their special occasions – proof that his recommendations create meaningful dining experiences.
How do you separate authentic food content from clout-chasing in your social feeds? Follow Thick Eats to discover restaurants worth visiting from someone who understands food from both sides of the kitchen door.
Connect with Anthony and support his amazing work here:
https://www.instagram.com/thickeats/
https://www.youtube.com/@thickeatsva
https://www.tiktok.com/@thickeats?_t=8eGneCz2WvS&_r=1
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Never trust a skinny food blogger.
Speaker 2:Never. That's great, that's right right, I nailed it, nailed it.
Speaker 1:So Thick Eats, that's your show.
Speaker 3:That's your program, right? Yes, sir.
Speaker 1:How do you not trust that name? You have to trust it If you're coming across if you're looking up food blog and stuff like that and you see Thick Eats how do you not hit that?
Speaker 3:You don't go to Thin Eats? No, you don't go to Skinny.
Speaker 1:Guy Tried this once. Yeah, you got to go to Thick Eats, right? Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Tell us about yourself, my man, I love it. Talk to us, bro. So I am Anthony. I'm the main part of Thick Eats. I started in 2020, just like everybody started everything. You know, I picked up their hobby, that word the covid yeah, the covid, okay, got you started. Good man, it was good for a lot of things. Yeah, just you know it. It brought things and it took things down, but for me, I I would always get you know, asked like you know, you know where to eat.
Speaker 2:you know why not make a page? I'm like, why not? So then I just kind of fell into that and, uh, I would see restaurants that I personally enjoyed struggling, and I was like you know what, maybe they need more spotlight than just yelp, google, and like other people that are just TikToking and doing whatnot, I'm like you know, let me try and sit in front of a camera and do my soap. So that's just kind of how it sprouted, and now it is where it is now.
Speaker 1:Now you're doing it for fun and you've built a passion for what it is you have Absolutely. Now. The reason I like dealing with him and working with him is because, as you know, as a chef, everybody wants to make content right and everybody who doesn't have the skill of cooking or doesn't necessarily cook, they still want to go make the content. They want to have something exciting. So what do you do to get content exciting? It may not be so much you who's exciting. It may be the content you're using to make the creation right, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So a lot of people, a lot of food bloggers, a lot of food writers. Now, currently, with the way social media is going, we'll go around to the hottest spots in town because it guarantees them a story, it guarantees them a follow, it guarantees them this, it guarantees them that. So there's two type of bloggers in my way, in my style here, in my vision. There's the type that does exactly what I just said They'll start out their show with here I am, I'm walking in this place and now we all know it's gonna be dope. I'm expecting this and that, and they go off of the image and the actual um, how, the vibe that's already been put out there.
Speaker 1:So of course, everyone who watches, it's gonna like it because everyone goes to it, they all know it and they can, that's easily popular then you have the other type of blogger who goes in to the restaurant, doesn't really brag about the restaurant as much, as they are there to talk about the fucking food, and that's the one that I enjoy. Typically those people I get along with a little bit more, but I understand and I respect everybody's point of view. I understand why the other people are doing it for the hospitality entertainment version of everything. But then I also get along better with the people who are going to the food, because that's where my heart and passion lie, absolutely. So you come from the restaurant industry background, I do. So why don't you touch on that a little bit? Because that's a key component to what I'm about to say.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:So my family came into the States back in the 80s and opened up a Mediterranean restaurant that was unheard of in the first place. This is where Virginia was just nothing but grass Town center wasn't a thing. And where was that? Where are they from? We're originally from Lebanon.
Speaker 1:So Lebanon is an amazing Mediterranean cuisine because they have the influences of all of them, from Turkey all the way down to Greece, everywhere.
Speaker 2:Beautiful food. I mean it's great food, it's filling and it's good for you. A lot of doctors say Mediterranean diet.
Speaker 1:Sure, the Mediterranean is that waterway is a production for all. The best ingredients to that exist on this planet.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, yeah, so they came here in the 80s on a whim. My grandparents were coming from Boston and their idea was all right, let's go look for opportunity in Florida. They stopped in New York, somebody broke in their car, they messed with the ignition and basically anyone that's Lebanese. We always have a knife in our car just to cut fruit, not for any protection at all, just to cut some fruit, hand it to the driver, hand it around. And so my grandma gave my grandpa the knife. They basically fixed the ignition somehow to get the car to keep going. They kept driving and it broke down. In Virginia it would take two weeks to get the parts Happened. To be a Lebanese mechanic, he's like we're moving here instead. So then we just popped up.
Speaker 2:Out of nowhere so she goes back to Boston and tells her kids she's like, hey, we're moving to Virginia. I'm like, what's in Virginia? I'm like, well, now it's your home. So we started a small shop right near Cleveland Street Just had takeout, part of the building had burned, and then we ended up finding our home and we've been there for 37 years.
Speaker 1:And what's the name?
Speaker 2:of that Azar's Mediterranean Specialties.
Speaker 3:Which is, if you don't know Azar's in this area, it's kind of hard not to. It's crazy yeah it's crazy.
Speaker 2:So we've been here for a long time and we're still rocking, so you're right.
Speaker 1:Now let's go back to that. Now we're talking about the genres, not the genres. But the the 80s, mediterranean food wasn't even really accepted. Without being specific, the word Mediterranean restaurant wasn't really that big of a thing. It was a Lebanese restaurant, a Greek restaurant, an Italian restaurant. The infusion of the word making a Mediterranean restaurant wasn't really a thing yet. So is that how they started with that term Mediterranean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because at the time there's nobody that's like oh, we have.
Speaker 1:Lebanese food. We have falafel, we have za'atar they wouldn't, understand that right.
Speaker 3:I don't know what that is. What's this foreign stuff you're eating?
Speaker 2:You know, like so as a way of marketing, they kind of invented that. So it's how can we get people in here?
Speaker 1:because no one understands what Lebanese food is, which is rightfully so. Why would, when they think of Lebanon, they don't understand that it is Mediterranean-based diet?
Speaker 2:I don't think they understand.
Speaker 1:The grape leaves the dolmas all that stuff is huge there and it's some of the best things on the planet.
Speaker 3:Which is the best? Oh, it's the best. I love getting hungry, right now.
Speaker 2:I know we're all ready for lunch. I know that's why I forgot I had to bring the shirts at least the shirts were wonderful by the grew up in a restaurant.
Speaker 1:You know how to cook, you know how to present, you understand what it takes for the cooks, the chefs and everybody else putting the food together to put it on the plate, to put it on the table, therefore giving your content value to me, because now someone who has an idea of what they're talking about is blogging about what I'm doing, so I have a little bit more of a Respect maybe I don't know if it's. I don't disrespect anybody, yeah, but I have a little bit more of a. What's the word I'm looking for?
Speaker 2:I'm just I'm attracted Appreciation.
Speaker 1:Attraction.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know and I appreciate it. So first time I met you we were working out in the same gym. This was years ago. Covid, COVID, yeah, COVID.
Speaker 3:During COVID. It's not real anymore. Yeah, I hate it.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, from then to now. Then you went into my original restaurant, luce Norfolk, which is downtown. You came in there, you did a little spot, you enjoyed the stuff, it was great. I enjoyed your company and then I've watched you grow right. So how have you grown? The question I'm going to ask here is pretty obvious to me how did you educate yourself in the growth to be able to continue doing what you're doing? That's number one, if you can remember that, and number two social media right now, as we all know, is drenched, it's overwhelmed, it's just flooded, whereas COVID time it was just starting to get flooded because no one had anything else to do. So back then it was much easier to grow Much more followers quicker. Your algorithms were out there much more. Then it just becomes so saturated.
Speaker 3:Not as much pay to play.
Speaker 1:There's not pay to play, and people like us who are putting out a very high end production aren't even having a harder time growing than we would have if we would have done this production 10 years ago.
Speaker 3:We would have been hundreds of thousands of people.
Speaker 1:So, with that being said, like us, my reward as a chef is people coming into my restaurant. That shows the day. If I don't have people coming in, we don't pay the bills. We're in trouble. If we have a lot of people coming in, we're able to expand and do better and make more. So I have a physical reward right Now when we go to our social media platforms, our podcasts, our YouTubes and all that stuff and you look at the growth of that.
Speaker 1:For the same amount of time, passion and effort, the growth is not there anymore. So what keeps you drive? Keeps your drive to do it, because you do it with ease and you do it with vigor and you really put a lot of effort into it. But I notice, like you notice, because I want to see you succeed, because you're really good at this, you have a great knack for it, but your followings aren't going as much. So that's got to be a little bit depressing and sometimes takes the wind out of our sails, right? What is it about this industry that keeps you going in this field?
Speaker 2:I still try and keep true. I do keep true to what I originally started with. My whole purpose is to help restaurants in any way, shape or form, or even just you know, if you had no clue about this place.
Speaker 2:It's a hole in the wall, Now you know, and hopefully they'll get more business. But I think the majority of why I keep doing this is because I just want to stick with that and I want to keep it that way. You know, seeing like other people that have like 100,000 followers, like that's cool, Great, you know congratulations.
Speaker 1:It's cool, but it's not because some of their stuff is garbage and I don't like looking at it and it sucks that I have to even you know the effortless momentum that they got somewhere along the line.
Speaker 3:Well, a lot of it is paid, so we do have to look at that.
Speaker 1:I mean, I can look at an Instagram account and tell you in about five minutes.
Speaker 3:Whether it's 50% bots or not, I mean we can tell, but yours has grown since that time. Did you know anything about social media going into it? Were you doing it for the restaurant or anything for your family?
Speaker 2:No, I wasn't involved in the social media with my family's restaurant. I was back at home, so I was production, cooking and just trying to help the caterings.
Speaker 3:So you kind of learned as you went along.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was just pretty much a learning curve, like I'm a young guy Like you know, I knew Instagram and how things work the right hashtags, the right time and whatnot but nothing in depth and um, I kind of just went on a whim and I was like you know.
Speaker 2:I'm going to put a post and just try it this way and just do it and just like a with a little gimbal and like I sit there with my mic that's connected under my shirt, that goes all the way through because I didn't have the wireless yet and to now, where I have a great team with a Vatic agency. They helped me out with a great production.
Speaker 2:So I think that's what really sets me apart between everybody else is that I'm in front of the camera. It's not like I'm just, you know, going through here as much.
Speaker 1:One take means more original, more organic. You're going to fuck up a little bit, you're going to stubble your words a little bit, but that's what makes it real. And I think people are tired of the bullshit. And that's why we like this show, because we say whatever we want on the show and we talk about the restaurant industry, the cooking, the strife, the trials and tribulations. We also bring in other guests too that are all based around food in one way, shape or form.
Speaker 3:But the social aspect has changed a lot, and so have you monetized in your process of doing it, like as far as sponsors or you know, do you work with restaurants? Because the thing that I think most restaurant owners are and he's bitched about that before is people that just come in just to get a free meal out of it Like that's really a lot of the food influencers they just expect you to give them free shit absolutely, and they have no say whether it's good or not, because they have no knowledge.
Speaker 3:So how? How have you worked that into? More like of a business, I guess?
Speaker 2:so in the beginning I was just paying for it myself. I was like I'm gonna go in there, but I had a problem of like all right, I'm spending like 150, 150 dollars every time I go, I'm like I need to try an appetizer or two, I need to try this.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to try one thing, I'm like oh, this is a good place, like you need to try it for everything. But now it gets to the point where I'll go and vet the restaurant. I'll just go, I won't say anything, I'll try the restaurant myself, kind of you, me now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you started to build, but again it was relationships.
Speaker 2:You didn't go in there expecting like yeah, no, that's the thing. I'm trying to help and I can support.
Speaker 3:You're giving them advertising and new eyeballs.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, which is amazing. So I think that's the part that we talked about with our previous guest's purpose. You have a purpose for doing it. You're trying to actually help those restaurants get real customers, not shitty customers. Absolutely yeah, and that matters.
Speaker 1:And you know, moving into what you were just saying a minute ago and then what I was saying before, when it comes to the food blogging in restaurants, don't come in as fucking restaurant if you think you're doing me favors unless you have something to offer. Because I know one thing I am going to do you a favor, it's tried and true. I'm not making this. I'm very humbled about it, but I know the work and effort my team puts into this place and what we have to do to make what we happen is a product we have something to talk about and that's what I focus on daily. So I'm proud to say that because it's what we're looking for. That's what we're aiming for. So if people come into the restaurant wanting to gain follows and likes and that it's going to be very hard for me to just agree to everybody that walks in here, absolutely, because I know one thing You're going to get some content. It doesn't mean I'm going to get my $300 out of it.
Speaker 2:What does that mean for me?
Speaker 1:I mean they're liking you for being here, they're not liking me because you are here.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You see what I'm saying. So it's it's. That's where we're up against the wall here. So you have to really pick and choose the bloggers. Like I said, I like working with you because you're very humble. You have no. You come in and you pay for your food and, and when time works out and things work out, it's going to benefit us both, trust me when I tell you because that's how it works.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. So many people in, and I don't think you realize this. We have people that literally come in here telling the waitresses that they should have free appetizers or drinks because they're influencers.
Speaker 3:Who the hell are you? I know the owner. I'm like who the fuck doesn't know the owner.
Speaker 1:I don't even know the owner. I don't even know myself.
Speaker 3:I wake up in the morning.
Speaker 1:Who the hell am I?
Speaker 3:This is a funny part because I think based on audience. So you do. You've taken a long time to curate that and it's been organic, which is totally different. But we've dealt with because one of the another place when we had influencers come in to help build it as an opening process, one of them their following is not a high quality following, so in turn, for all of that spent trying to say, ok, push my restaurant. The clientele that came in was not the clientele for that restaurant. So I think that people like you know they oversell themselves and they don't have that background. So you're actually going in beforehand to see if it fits you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I don't. At the end of the day, I'm not. I don't want to lie to anybody. I want to tell the truth about the restaurant.
Speaker 3:If I don't like it, I'm not going to do a recording. You're not going to come back and get paid.
Speaker 2:Like you're not going to sell out. It's an opportunity and I want to stay true to not selling out If someone's going to pay me $1,000 to do a video. I'm like, I don't even like this restaurant.
Speaker 1:Why am I doing this in the first place? And now I'm going to happen. And there are people who do it.
Speaker 3:I mean they charge a lot of money to come in, do a review, do not even a full production. Really, for some of the prices they're charging it's their cell phone, but if you stay, true to yourself.
Speaker 1:you can monetize that Because there's a market, all that. And who doesn't want to be able to do what they love and get paid for? It yeah of course, that's not what we're talking about. I'm not saying do this for free forever, but I think it's important you really stay true. That's what I try and do here. And even talking on this damn thing, I want to make sure I stay true, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like we're not trying to build it for you know like one season and get you know some decent shit out of it.
Speaker 2:Like this is a long-term commitment to the industry itself to actually show what's going on and have your stake in that. Yes, it's a commitment to the industry, just like she said. That's perfectly said.
Speaker 1:And that's how we want to do. I've lived off this industry. This industry pays me, it pays my team, everybody around me, it pays my team, everybody around me, everyone in this fucking room right now in this room right now is being paid from this industry.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying? We're all here right now, right now doing it.
Speaker 1:So it's very important to understand that. Now let's go back. So there's a difference between a food blogger and a food critic, and I don't think a lot of people understand what they were because they haven't lived through both of them.
Speaker 3:The old school critic.
Speaker 2:The old food critic.
Speaker 1:I've been in the industry for 30 years. I've been critiqued. I've been critiqued both levels, Mostly good, but some bad and the bad ones. Some food critics back in the day, the big name ones, the New York City ones, the Zagat ones, all these people who really worked for big programs.
Speaker 3:God, who remembers Zagat? That was God, I was bringing it out.
Speaker 1:New York Times, the Boston Herald, all these people that would be in these things, and I'm not going to mention names they're probably not even alive, some of them now, or they're not even around.
Speaker 3:Probably not Fuck them anyway, because a lot of them ruin people's lives.
Speaker 1:But there was a time where the critic was nasty and they made more. They got more recognition off of the shit they would talk than they did off of the actual um, respectful credits critiquing they actually should like simon cowell, kind of kind of fact, yeah, in a sense.
Speaker 1:And they would walk around all pretentious and they would go in and they would literally destroy a chef's life because the it's one of their. You know, something they didn't like was didn't have enough salt for their liking and it ruined everything, so they just tore the place up. Now, how hard is it for that? Now I'm noticing that you don't see that anymore. I don't care if it's in a newspaper, I don't care if it's a critic, I don't care about anything. They just say we'll give them instead of three stars, we'll give them two, but everything was good, but they don't really go into why. So when you come across a place and you go in it and it's not like you thought, you have a decision to make. You're either going to roast this fucking place in a sense, or be real with it, or just kind of leave it the fuck alone and not destroy these people. Where are you at with it.
Speaker 2:I'm not here to ruin anyone's life, but if it's working for them in some sense and they're happy with their two and a half stars, by all means. But if I, you know, if someone says hey, it might say two and a half stars, the service might be shitty but the food is five stars. I'll go and check it out myself. But there might be a point in time where I'm like I did have a two and a half star, you know, or one star of service, but, like man, the food's good but it's not worth. You know, and I'm not the person to kind of rip into somebody online. That's not me.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, they have their own problems, so you just find yourself backing off it and not even going through with it.
Speaker 2:No, and if a friend asks me, I'm like I wasn't a big fan of it, not really for me, but I'm not going to blast anyone on social media.
Speaker 1:That's really not what I started off with. That's going against what you want to do. You want to help people. You want to promote Absolutely. The critiquing has gone away. Now that's good, yeah, or if you have a critic who actually has credentials.
Speaker 3:That was the problem. Anybody who can have a pen can be a critic, or even Yelp.
Speaker 2:At the end of the day, people read Yelp and they're like two and a half stars. You'll see all these five star reviews. I mean, you know it, You're in the restaurant.
Speaker 1:Oh bro, I can fucking read them for fun, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's sad because you could even respond to them and say come back in, let's fix it.
Speaker 3:They won't respond to anything.
Speaker 1:They'll still be assholes A lot of people on Yelp are bitching because something didn't go their way and it necessarily didn't mean what they were bitching about. And I tell my team all the time it starts at the door. Hospitality is very, very important. When you walk in that door and if they feel slighted in any way, disrespected or something, that's when it all goes to hell. As soon as you were disrespected or you felt you were disrespected, your steak tastes like shit. The pasta was overcooked. The waitstaff left you alone. Your fucking table next to you got their food first. You were their second. Da da, da, da da.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it all starts right there and a lot of people don't understand that A lot of these Yelp critiques or these trip advisors. It's an open format for people. Well, there's no regulation at all. There's no regulation. No, there's no regulation. So people can just go and it becomes a bitching session.
Speaker 1:And they want to just vent because they're so mad that the trumpets weren't out and the red carpet had a wrinkle in it and they were supposed to be fucking treated that way. And, like I said, it starts at the front door and typically when a blogger comes in they get treated right. But how many times do you go in a place and you say you're doing this and the people give you some sort of shunned attitude? Does that happen? Like oh God?
Speaker 2:here we go, I think early on, like I mean I barely had any following and they're just like all right, cool, like good for you, like you're on social media like all right, eat a taco.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we got thick guy, exactly oh like it's just really early on, but now it's like to the point where I really don't have that backlash, like you know. It's more like welcoming. You know they'll see my page and it's like I'm trying to do what I can to help you. You know, because I either see you struggling or you're a great restaurant.
Speaker 1:I feel like you're not getting the the most out of it, but that really early on is when it happened, so he came in not too long a couple weeks ago.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I haven't seen this blog. I'm being nice. I haven't even seen what he had to say yet.
Speaker 3:Oh, from here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh you haven't seen it.
Speaker 3:No, oh, now we've got to watch it.
Speaker 2:It's part of the happy hour highlight that's.
Speaker 3:But I'll tell you what we got to watch that.
Speaker 2:So, like you said from the door, I mean I'm not the kind of person that's like all right, the service is going to be shitty because this and like the food's going to be shitty, but great service overall and I loved coming in here and you know, you even seeing me in the first place like I didn't want any special treatment If'm big into the hospitality business of it all anyway.
Speaker 1:And when I know you and I know what you're doing and your passion. I know your true heart in this because we've talked about it for years. So I see you growing in it and I see you just taking your time with it, and that's impressive, because that's how it goes when you're going to make a good blog. I guess is that what I'm calling it a blog?
Speaker 2:Blog page when you're doing a specific one.
Speaker 1:It's per blog, right. So when you're going to look for the perfect content, what to you justifies a perfect meal? What are you looking for to really be like okay, I don't want to give it a seven because it's not. When it's like man, this is really good. What are you looking for to get that perfect fucking blog? That's a good question.
Speaker 2:What gets your goat, man? I would say it has to be just the quality of ingredients that are going into it in the first place, knowing A that they're getting it local or anywhere in the States it's hard to not get anything farmed nowadays but just the quality and the atmosphere. I think it's just mostly the atmosphere and just having the hostess and the server checking on you and like asking questions and really trying to help you through, like the menu, if you have any questions or you know the ingredients or Things like that is really what so.
Speaker 1:So I guess what I'm getting at more is, if you had a burger, right, you're going to get a. Let's just say you're going to get a burger, you get the regular burger. It's a nice chuck ground, really nicely done, almost on the smash level. It's got that nice fatty taste to it. Right, everything's good, perfect, beautiful. You eat that burger, it's good, this is a good, freaking burger, right, that's up my alley. Then you go to another burger place that's well known, right, and this burger has the 80, 20 or the 50, 50 or, and it's got the gray cheese on it and the caramelized onions. And now there's a difference now, all of a sudden, between that burger and that burger. Yeah, so how do you justify? Like, you eat it and you're like, mm. This is good. And then you eat that one, mm, this is good. Well, there's a lot of difference in those two burgers and you've got to bring that without overselling one before the other.
Speaker 2:Do you have to take that into play, or is that just me? Yeah, I mean just like highlighting what's you know, like they're using a cheese or they're using Port Valon, Like just trying to highlight, like, all right, this is how they're cooking, they're doing a smash, but these guys are actually just doing like a regular burger that umami flavors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's got to be something that, when you eat, it brings you back. Like on Ratatouille when homeboy ate the Ratatouille. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. Something brings you back right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just, I think, the traditional thought of like growing up as a kid, having American cheese, tomatoes, lettuce, onions, classic, yeah, you know, mayo, mustard, ketchup.
Speaker 1:That's it To me. That's the burger, classic burger. I need a nice burger with a nice bun and freaking mustard ketchup pickles onions, tomato, lettuce. Boom, don't, let us boom. How many burgers do I eat a week? At least three, that's like my main meal.
Speaker 3:It's so sad. People don't like burgers and french fries and a margarita.
Speaker 1:That is, and a margarita is my probably one of my perfect meals, and everywhere I travel. Well, they can't fuck it up as bad.
Speaker 3:So if I travel, I know that's always going to be good, like if you don't know a restaurant. I'm like, okay, you really only fuck up a burger so much by overcooking it, like at least it's going to be decent.
Speaker 1:The ketchup will be good, so the ketchup will smother it all It'll be, fine.
Speaker 3:So it's you know, I've definitely, yeah, but I honestly I don't think people realize how much I eat cheeseburgers a week, like it's so sad.
Speaker 1:So do you do any collaborations with any chefs, do you?
Speaker 2:get outside of the kitchen more. This is more of my side of what I'm doing. I do IT for the Navy so I'm very much involved in that. So it kind of took me away from being more in the restaurant. But I help with events like my family, the restaurants near our gym so we help them with like one of their food vendors or thinking about going to the farmer's market and providing food there as well. But, I'm mainly outside of it now. I was doing production, but I'm just mostly out of it now.
Speaker 2:But I'll help when I can.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think he's trying to challenge you to a cook-off type thing. No, no, not at all.
Speaker 1:What I wanted to do was actually collaborate and do something together.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Because I love the Mediterranean, I love Lebanese food. There's so much things I like to do and I'm always looking for people to do something in film to bring out to the public.
Speaker 1:Yeah absolutely To teach them little things here and there, while you show me a method of something that your family does. It doesn't have to be this big, elaborate chef method, because I got that technique, yeah, yeah, but the wholesome family traditional thing that, as you're teaching me, we can show them. Those are the things I like doing with chefs, cooks, people in the industry.
Speaker 1:And that showcases your knowledge and your skill. So people watch your show and they trust you know about food and that's very important is to have product knowledge. Food blogging I'm up and down on it. I think it's necessary, I think it's a respectable thing, people have a lot of fun on it. I think it's necessary, I think it's a respectable thing, people have a lot of fun with it. So I guess there's a difference between food blogging and venue blogging and I think that's where the translation gets lost sometimes and the venue blogging to me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, is it IG-worthy, insta-worthy? It's lost in the hype.
Speaker 2:sometimes it's like oh this place just opened up, let's just go flood it.
Speaker 3:Just to do it.
Speaker 2:There's 15 other people that are doing it, and so all day you're swiping and it's like all right, same thing, same thing.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Different format, same person, I mean different you know, different person, same place.
Speaker 1:So it's like what makes me feel really good is when I'm scrolling through Instagram or Facebook at any level, and I'm seeing people that either I follow or they follow me, or it's just on the feed somehow, of them taking a picture, up against a mural celebrating their birthday, tagging Luce Secundo or Luce Norfolk, because they're there with their family or they're celebrating something. That to me, randomly and so organically as I'm reading, see that and I scroll, that makes me instantly feel good, that they're sharing a part of their life. That, to me, means anything more than any food blogger or anything can do, because that right there is the real deal, that's the real verdict right there. That really makes me feel good. But you, when you do your work, you do it with a passion, you're very humble in it, you're really just looking at the food for what it is, and you're going from white tablecloth place to basically a bowling alley, sometimes in a sense, not so much, I don't discriminate.
Speaker 2:I just go wherever Right you go wherever it's good.
Speaker 1:I think I've seen you and correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen you do things as easy as like taco-y, chicken tendery type stuff. You know what I mean Bar food.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean, maybe not that.
Speaker 2:Almost dive-ish.
Speaker 3:That's great. Like you have to have it Dude dive by our meatloaf. Oh yeah, kidding me. Get that, Get down Chicken tenders, fish and chips, I don't know, just some crazy stuff. Well, this came in my head, which I think. I don't know if this is even a term, but I think that yours, when it falls on that line of like influence. So you are an ethical blogger.
Speaker 2:I like that.
Speaker 3:I know, I don't know if that's out there, you just came up with something. Check the hashtag, see if it's popular Ethical blogger. Ethical blogger.
Speaker 1:Because, again.
Speaker 3:we look at so many trends in the industry and we got flooded COVID. Everybody came online Again. You saw all these online coaches and life coaches and courses, these online coaches and life coaches and courses and all these people got certified in things. That I mean you have no fucking right, your life's a mess.
Speaker 1:Stop being a life coach. You don't even can't pay your rent, and we ended up with that differentiator of it.
Speaker 3:So it was like, okay, we can go one way or the other with the blog side, and because you said, yeah, so we have now even in food, like, um, ethical farming or there's different, so we're to call you an ethical blogger. There you go, sure I like that how many follows does hashtag ethical blogger have on the ground? There's a guy on Google that says it involves following principles of honest, fairness and transparency.
Speaker 2:Okay, it involves principles of honest transparency. That's AI.
Speaker 3:AI. That's the AI answer that we got from Google. Thanks, that's the AI answer that we got from Google. Thanks, google, that's funny.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks, google, ai, so the best part about the internet and the stuff that she's talking about is that it gives, and not enough chefs are doing it. For every blogger and every reviewer, there's a chef or a manager or a maitre d' that has the same exact opportunity to respond back, and they don't. So I don't understand why. You know what I'm saying, I? I don't, so I don't understand why.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying. I don't understand why he responds a lot. I respond a lot. Anybody who wants to be entertained, just go to the Google reviews and read the responses.
Speaker 2:And that's true. You should do that because, like, yelp is a nightmare, that's not that many.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it's a low-level hashtag so it still has not caught traction, so we're going to give that to you. That is now your title in this area.
Speaker 3:And we are going to see when it jumps up from 55,000 uses to millions, then we know we've made it Exactly Right here.
Speaker 1:We're starting it right here on the show 757 Chesapeake. Call your friends.
Speaker 3:There's no such thing as an ethical bartender, but there may be an ethical blogger.
Speaker 2:As long as they can pour and they can figure it out.
Speaker 1:So, Skylar, if you don't mind, could you do me a favor. Can you grab those reviews that are written up there on the counter up there?
Speaker 3:Oh, we have some, so we do read bad reviews occasionally.
Speaker 1:So well, here's the thing I always read bad reviews, but I'm going to read a review without looking at it to determine if it's bad or legitimate, because there are some legitimate reviews out there and there are some ones we've got to look at and say, oh shit, you got to bite the bullet and go. Yeah, they might be right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Nine times out of 10,. It all starts at the door. Like I said, and I'll tear those fuckers up because they just don't know how to act. You know what I'm?
Speaker 3:saying yeah.
Speaker 1:Or they're in a place that they people are in a place they don't understand that that's where it becomes an issue yeah, and that's what we're going to talk about here, so I think we've seen.
Speaker 3:I mean again, you have to have life experience to gain life experience. So we never, you know, you don't discriminate about anybody trying to broaden their horizons when it comes to food. They may not understand your culture and they may say something stupid, or because they're not educated, so you have to make a choice. Make a hard choice I'm going to educate you or I'm just going to fire. I'm just going to put you in a hole because you deserve it.
Speaker 2:So we go back and we walk a fine line. Yeah, it's hard. I mean, this is your, it's your business you know it's something you built up from the ground and it's like who are you to say anything about in the first place? But it's also that goes with the entitlement of being online, being behind your phone and basically bullying whoever you want because you think nothing's going to happen behind you Keyboard warriors. Half the time you're not going to respond to them. That's what they would think. They think that.
Speaker 1:That's the thing, no-transcript. I have literally thrown people out of my restaurant. I don't give a shit. I will throw your ass out. You disrespect to a level of not coming back. I'll be very tolerant, but when you start getting so disrespectful in front of everybody, I'm going to make a fool out of you in front of everybody.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. You're not going to do it. It's fun.
Speaker 1:So here we go. Jared this is Jared. No last name no, nothing. This is Jared. Jared, if you're watching, we're touching base on your fucking misery. Not very good, that's his title. Not very good, all right. Great subject On a level of good to not good not very restaurant is beautiful, but service is not great. Okay, I can see that, like I said, it happens at the door.
Speaker 3:So something happened, somebody touched this person.
Speaker 1:Somebody touched Jared the wrong way. We were not in a hurry, but three hours for dinner was too long. What part of the white tablecloths? And seven steps of service before you even get your appetizer did? Did you not realize what's happening?
Speaker 3:It's going to be at least two hours. Yes, yes, so three hours.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you one thing we run our reservations every night on a two and a half hour window, so you weren't here for three hours, jared. Okay, so stop, go back to Jared and get your diamonds. Let's see Appetizers. We're not served all together with one appetizer, completely forgotten. Can't comment on that. That might happen, might have waiter might have forgotten.
Speaker 3:Server may have forgot.
Speaker 1:Could be. Jared might have something there. However, the appetizers come out as they're kind of made. That's the Italian style. That's how we do it, and when you're working with fine dining, we don't have time to wait. So if you order a carpaccio, which is a cold dish, and you order something hot that takes more time, we're going to give you your carpaccio and then that's going to give you something while you're waiting for your appetizer. It's all quarterbacked right, so you can have your steps of service play through. So if you don't understand that type of dining, then you're probably not going to understand it here. When you go to Applebee's and ask for your smothered cheese fries and your potato skins, you get them both at the same time, and that's pretty much six minutes before your overcooked steak just came out on the floor.
Speaker 1:So no disrespect, but let's talk real. We're talking real. Appetizers are not served all at once, all together. Entrees were not served all together either. Don't know how that worked out. I think that's a little far-fetched. If not, one came after the other, depending on who was running the food, but that wasn't long enough. Entrees were not served altogether. We got that Food was good, but my steak was room temperature, with the gorgonzola sauce congealed on top.
Speaker 3:No, the filet. No, not buying it, not for three hours. If you were here for three hours I mean, if you let it sit there, yeah, no, I mean.
Speaker 1:the point is the food comes off the grill, it comes to the table or it comes off the saute.
Speaker 3:You don't have room for it. It comes off the line, we don't have waiting food.
Speaker 1:We don't have a line, it doesn't happen.
Speaker 2:Honestly there are runners everywhere.
Speaker 1:That's why I see, when I was here. So again, this is a prime, but entrees were not served all together either. That's possible. You could have got one and then the other one could have came out right after and they put them on a table with plenty of time for you not to be eating without the other person.
Speaker 3:It just could have been two food runners or something running at the same time. Well, they only have two hands and you guys don't stack plates here. It's not like you put five plates up an arm and take them to a table.
Speaker 1:They don't do that and the dining room works in its flow and that's how it works. We take a lot of pride at our expo. We have four people at our expo making sure that doesn't happen. So again, these are what I talk about when people make their frigging reviews. A little thing happened and they escalate their review so bad. Now, the reduced gorgonzola cream sauce was congealed. It's not congealed, it's the highest, most, it's high mountain gorgonzola from Italy. It's absolutely done to perfection and it is slightly melted so it just kind of is softened on top of your steak.
Speaker 1:What you're eating, my friend, is absolute solid blue-cheesed gorgonzola, this is just it's just been hit with a little bit of heat to make it a little bit viscous, a little bit softer. It wasn't meant to be a creamy sauce. You obviously didn't know that, so you put it out there as if we don't know what we're doing. Too many slip-ups in service to be a fine dining restaurant. The Norfolk location is much better Very disappointing. Okay. So, jared, downtown Norfolk, I love that. That's my start, that's my baby, that's where I grew, that's where it is. However, it is a wine bar and a martini bar with a very eclectic, very good Italian menu. So, basically, you're walking into a bar and having a great service of meal. Okay, there's not one ounce stepped of service compared to this one other than great quality, good hospitality, great people serving you and that's that. Now remove the rest of the experience from Norfolk and Haraway. That's the type of thing I'm dealing with when we deal with these reviews. So people want to go to a bar scene type of scene and eat and have a great meal. That's what they're used to. That's what they're comfortable.
Speaker 1:Jared, I'd love to listen to a lot of what you have to say here. I'm definitely going to take it in. You know what I mean, maybe the food was a little bit warm temperature. Okay, that might have happened one time, but it doesn't happen enough for me to figure that out. That was something that I don't know, because I'm just looking at it now. What I'm getting at is here at once.
Speaker 1:It seems like you have a lot to say but really honestly, you're talking about things that aren't, that don't exist, and you don't understand what type of restaurant you're in. Before you go make food critics, before you make critiques, before you make blogs, before you make things, understand where you are, read the room, understand the experience you're walking into. Everything you said is right on line of what we provide. You're upset that it took close to three hours. We pride ourselves that it takes about three hours. So you don't understand that.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what we look for. It's a different style of dining. We have steps of service. We use crummers. Each service between water bottle service all the way through, all the way through, all the way through takes minutes, not seconds. These minutes all add up, so that's what we talk about. When I talk about responding, I'm not going to go full ham on him, because he did have some valid points in his mind and his perception he wasn't that rude here you know what I'm saying, but also they don't understand that if you said some of these things in person, it would probably get rectified right away.
Speaker 3:Sure absolutely, and then you would have a better experience the next time you came. But to sit and wait just means that you're petty, so so here's here's one line I didn't read for some reason.
Speaker 1:Our server was not very good, very inattentive, as we were ignored for long periods of time. So if you're used to someone coming up and hi, how are you?
Speaker 1:I'm uh, joey, I'm here for you. If you're used to that, then you're right. In this type of dining, the waitstaff comes up. We watch you from afar. We have service assistants on the floor watching your table and we don't come up to you and bother you. We don't interrupt your conversation. When we see you need something. If that step of service is needed or required, we will come to you. So if you're used to somebody always filling up your soda, needing more water, you want more bread, you need this, you need that. We don't typically work that way here. So again, read the room, read where you're at, understand where you're at. The person he's talking about here one of the servers he's talking about happens to be one of our best servers here and if you read the rest of the reviews, when they're all raving about the same people, maybe you don't understand what's going on.
Speaker 3:The best part about that, though, is if you are there filling up the water every 30 seconds, then they're going to be annoyed that they were bothered and their conversation was interrupted. So there's a different. When you go out for finer dining, it is different.
Speaker 2:If you want to have a conversation with the people you came with?
Speaker 3:You want to talk through the whole meal without being interrupted. Exactly.
Speaker 2:That's the point of having that three-hour sit-down is just enjoying your time with that person you wanted to come here with, and more of a again European Middle East.
Speaker 3:that's more cultural. You sit down for longer meals. In America we've just gotten so accustomed to turn and burn Like here throw your to make. I got a show to be at Everybody's in such a rush.
Speaker 2:They don't actually enjoy dining which is an experience it's close to be. It's really lost. Everything's like how fast can we get in and out?
Speaker 3:How fast is our?
Speaker 2:food going to come. I've done it before. I'm like I need a quick meal. Let me go here.
Speaker 1:Let me go there. And here's another life tip for you sitting across the table from somebody at a place like this and you're realizing that three hours is too long, you're sitting across the table from the wrong person, sir, so why don't you find somebody that makes three hours go by like this and stop blaming that shit on me, okay, how's that sound?
Speaker 3:it's not our fault. You didn't get laid that night, jared. I'm sorry, log, that it's not our fault. Well, that's and I guess for wrapping up on the social media side, you obviously get feedback, but it's right there in the comment under the video. So are you I know it's probably evolved more of a responsive try and rectify or are you more of just a delete, block, goodbye.
Speaker 2:As of recently, I've seen more and I find it funny. It's just like it'll always be about appearance. It'll never be about the food or anything else. It'll find it funny.
Speaker 3:It's just like it'll always be about appearance it'll never be about the food or anything else.
Speaker 2:It'll be like obese man loves food. I'm like that's actually really funny. But I'm gonna have to block you for that one. But uh, I don't. You know, I don't. I'm not a negative person, so I I don't rip into it unless it's in person. But you're really just behind the phone you just kind of let it go.
Speaker 2:That's whatever at the end of the day like you're not gonna bother me me by this. It's funny, I'm going to laugh at it for a little bit and then it's just like, whatever, I don't really care about it, but that's been happening more often than not.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, it's because you're, I mean people are knowing who you are. Now, yeah, I mean like I don't give a shit.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, like you're just behind your phone. People say some shit because nine times out of ten, those people wish they could have, want to, or don't know how to do what you're doing and they're pissed at you because you make it look easy. And that's really what I think.
Speaker 3:And it's not easy. You put a ton of time and effort into it. Not at all.
Speaker 2:You sit there and you just kind of figure out the words and what you want to say and it might take a couple takes, but there's a lot of time and effort into this and it's showing and it's growing from that Right on. We'll take our time with this.
Speaker 1:The podcast is like I said. The podcast is directed around food, hospitality, restaurants cooking assholes named Jared, things like that. We just got to take everything that comes with it. If I were to sit here and read, everybody would be bored. If I sat here and read the great reviews every day, if I sat here and read the great reviews, every day.
Speaker 3:Nobody wants to hear the great reviews. Well, people like I mean, we like drama, we like to watch a train wreck, we love the drama, we love the bullshit. It's fine. The dumpster's on fire, let's throw some gas in it, it's fine. I mean, it's entertaining yeah.
Speaker 1:One last question for you. What is your favorite? What do you think? I'm going to go eat something I really love. What is it going to be?
Speaker 2:It has to be Italian food.
Speaker 1:I love gnocchi.
Speaker 3:Check please.
Speaker 2:I just love the process with it. I fell in love with the gnocchi at a young age, you can tell I kind of developed it by eating a lot, man, just like how everything's cooked. I had a best friend and his mom she was italian, straight from uh, sardinia, I think she would just cook for us all the time, like what is this? And like I enjoyed it, but other than that it's probably gonna be mediterranean food.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying mediterranean is phenomenal italian for me growing up all my life. That's how we do it, it's how we rock. Good, good answer um, all right, we got these shirts, your shirts which you have, which say eater, and that's a car, heart bro. That's fucking money right here. These are nice shirts, nice quality embroidery. Carhartt's are freaking amazing. What's up? Eater, eater gonna eat, yeah.
Speaker 3:For real eaters, Thick Eats.
Speaker 1:So we got these, which is awesome. I love it, bro. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:This is so cool, so yeah, tell everybody where they can find you, where they can support you and yeah, that's where I'm at.
Speaker 1:Thick Eats. Follow them, check them out. I love it. Thanks for watching our show. Thanks for following along with us. Thanks for all the support. We love doing what we do. Kristen is that right or wrong?
Speaker 3:That's right, that's it. We're on it, so hit subscribe for us. We're ready to eat now. Share this page. It's time to eat.
