Burnt Hands Perspective
This is a raw and unfiltered look into the pu$$ification and state of the restaurant industry as a whole, powered by longtime friends Chef/Owner Antonio Caruana and former bartender turned News Anchor/TV Host Kristen Crowley.
Representing all aspects of the industry from the front to the back of the house we will dig into the juiciest stories and pull from decades of experience in one of the sexiest and most exciting industries in the world...the food and beverage industry.
From international chefs, sommeliers, industry pros, and so much more, this show will cover all of it without a filter. You turn up the volume; we'll turn up the heat.
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Burnt Hands Perspective
Ep 32 - From London to Virginia Beach: Chef Alvin's Culinary Journey and Owning A Restaurant
Chef Alvin Williams shares his journey from classically-trained chef in England to celebrating 25 years at Cobalt Grille in Virginia Beach. We explore the evolution of restaurants, kitchen culture, and the fundamental differences between European and American culinary traditions.
• Training under elite French, Danish, German, and Belgian chefs in London where 18-hour workdays were standard
• Working in kitchens with fully-equipped showers because chefs lived so far from the restaurants
• Transitioning from formal French cooking to a more accessible menu that Virginia Beach diners embraced
• Creating menu staples like scallops Rockefeller and beef Wellington that have survived 25 years
• Dealing with skyrocketing ingredient costs – scallops have more than doubled in price
• Handling no-shows and last-minute cancellations that devastate restaurant economics
• Addressing both constructive criticism and unfair reviews without losing focus on loyal customers
• Adapting without compromising quality or culinary integrity
Join us at Cobalt Grille for Burger Night on Tuesdays or visit CobaltGrille.com to see what Chef Alvin has been perfecting for the past 25 years.
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All right, here we are with a great chef today. I'm excited about this. We've been trying to lock this dude down.
Speaker 2:Local legend infamous.
Speaker 1:Local legend Chef Alvin from Cobalt.
Speaker 2:Cobalt Grill Virginia Beach, Virginia, Somewhere I've been going for 20 years.
Speaker 1:I was going to say I think that she might be there more than you, bro.
Speaker 2:Well introduce yourself.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm Alvin Williams Chef. Alvin Williams Cobalt Grill is the name of my restaurant. We're in Virginia Beach. We've been there. This is year 25. We opened in October 11, 2000.
Speaker 1:Wow, you're saying it so smoothly, like that's not 25 years ago, it's 25 years.
Speaker 3:It's the last time I slept yeah bro.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you something, man 25 years in this industry. Everybody who's watching this pretty much knows and understands our industry and that's why you're fucking watching it. But it is not an easy industry to live in, it's not an easy industry to succeed in and it's definitely not an easy industry to stay in for 25 years, especially in one spot, one location.
Speaker 2:And one you've never changed locations. Same restaurant, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I remember 25 years ago when they opened and it still is, but I remember the hype of it. Just a word I'm like cobalt, what is cold. I was so young then I didn't know it was a fucking blue.
Speaker 3:Well, this is yeah and there was a lot of confusion as to where the name came from and really we just like the color and that color was kind of oh, really hip at the time yeah, it was right, right, cobalt blue we also wanted to do many other different restaurants and that was one of those things we were going to do. Cobalt and copper and all these earth things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, there was kind of a trend of that, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then what happened, though? So you were going to do multiple restaurants and your scheme of things. Everything seemed perfect, right, yeah, you should Shit hit the fan.
Speaker 3:When, when, you first stopped working in a restaurant. I mean literally, I knew it was going to be hard work. I knew that and I was used to hard work and that's never been a problem. And when I built the place I put a shower in there, so I pretty much never left. I had a shower, a locker room and I was there 20 hours a day.
Speaker 1:Now what you're talking about, what he's talking about right now. For all those who don't know, I just had a quick conversation with them before this and I have this almost like an inquisitive love for UK Europe and their way of doing things there and the whole system of stuff that shower in the kitchen is not far from reality from where it is you come from here. It's a little drastic.
Speaker 3:Not to me. It's not actually in the kitchen. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:Which would make it really interesting.
Speaker 1:Regardless. So I thought when I built this place, I honestly thought about putting a shower with a bedroom and a thing like that, so I can stay here. So this is not out of the normal for people like us and definitely people with you. You're coming from the UK.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so my background I was born in England. My parents are jamaican. Uh, I went to culinary school in england right out of high school and I did real well with it and ended up working in in london and um a lot of those restaurants that you work in there, you are there 18 hours a day so it's pretty common to have showers and locker rooms there because you don't even have time to go home, because you can't live in central london because it's too expensive. So you got to live out in the suburbs. It's like new york manhattan you go out to queens of brooklyn. So here I was living in hammersmith and fulham and I lived in layton stone, and all on the outskirts. So by the time you leave work at midnight and, luckily, to either get a bus or the tube home, you're back on the tube again at 6 am to get back into work by by 7.
Speaker 2:Then yeah, you had no other choice.
Speaker 1:And it's almost contracted there, isn't it? Yeah, so over in europe and italy, when I go there and work with the chefs there, I I joke with the kids saying, hey, you need to come over to work and they're there six months. They have a con. They're not leaving for a year or two. They have a contract signed. I'm like here, these guys want to raise after two minutes and these guys have a contract. You're screwed, so go on.
Speaker 3:It's interesting. So working that lifestyle was great. It's very regimented, but you get to learn so much. But you're in it, you're just in it. That's all you know. That's all you work, that's all you talk about. You finish work, you go out for a drink, you talk in shop. On occasion you get to go out to the clubs, and then you know, and then you leave the club and you pretty much go back to the right side you're going to work with a hangover.
Speaker 1:You go to. Yeah, how?
Speaker 2:old were you during that time? Like uh? 19, 20, 21 so this was like you're in. Yeah, is it? I mean, what's the drinking age there? Were you able to go to clubs when you were?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, yeah, you start the drinking age there, were you able to go to clubs when you were. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you start the drinking age legally in England is 18.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you were out out.
Speaker 3:You start when you're 14, 15.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:You buy little suits.
Speaker 2:You were seasoned.
Speaker 3:I was seasoned, yeah. And then it gets boring after, when you get to the age where you're supposed to.
Speaker 1:When you're 18. By the time you're 21,. You've already freaking, started your adult life.
Speaker 3:Well then, I was moving here, in the process of moving here, but I was 21, had my 21st birthday and it was no big deal because you'd already been drinking for you know five years.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that's when you came to the States.
Speaker 3:Well, when I was there walking was my friend You're and you just go hang out and walk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, Cool off and stuff.
Speaker 1:I've been there many times, so many times, too many times. So coming up in cooking in the UK. You were there, you went to chef school there. There are some now I have, like I told you at the beginning of this, I have this weird fetish I guess you could say for the.
Speaker 1:UK Because I, some of the best chefs we know of in the fucking world come from the UK. Why the UK has so many Michelin stars, so many protégés? Everyone comes from the UK, but, however, it's never talked about unless you study up on it. Why is this?
Speaker 3:I'm not sure the reason why, but what I know is, and what my experience was, is that a lot of the best chefs were in London, but they were French chefs and they were Danish and they were German and they were Belgian. And these are the guys that you learn from and they have the skills and you know. So you end up learning different languages too. You know, I learned Flemish and I learned a little German, a little French, and you know, kitchen, kitchen. I wasn't fluent.
Speaker 1:Kitchen talk right.
Speaker 3:Kitchen talk Enough to survive yeah, enough to survive. What they need, what they want, they want it now, what the vegetables are, go to the walk-in and get this. But these chefs were so great and Europe's competitive and England was great in certain things Pubs and pub grub and that kind of stuff Not really food. The food was pretty basic. You got fish and chips and people always talk about roast beef, so the French people call us roast beef and we call them frog's legs. So it's a banter and a rivalry between these European countries. But everyone for some reason gravitated to London in England and I think it's probably got something to do with finance.
Speaker 1:Locality.
Speaker 3:Locality and finance and what people could afford, and they could afford these expensive meals and the best chefs ended up in London.
Speaker 1:Wouldn't you say. London is more like a melting pot too. It's almost like Manhattan or something. Because of the English speaking, everybody at some point in time can always run to an English speaking place. I think if they're coming from everywhere else, it's like the gateway to the rest of Europe, maybe, or getting out of Europe, rather Both ways. You know, and you know you got. So look, marco Pierre White brought through many chefs. He worked with Mario Batali, even came through him.
Speaker 3:Marco was number one, Of course still. Still Still. He had Harvey's, that restaurant. It was just legendary. And he was what America's Anthony Bredin Sure. He was a rebel.
Speaker 1:He was what America's Anthony.
Speaker 3:Bourdain, sure, sure he was, he was a workaholic but he was good too excellent, he was good.
Speaker 1:I mean, he was the inventor of so many methods and traditions and he doesn't want to admit it now. I think now that he's getting older, he's starting to take claim for some stuff, but rightfully so and he was one of the ones who got the stars first sure he starts and gave them back and the forks.
Speaker 3:Really, he's got everything. He gave his stars back.
Speaker 1:He gave his star back because he didn't want to compete. He didn't want to. It was too much pressure. His mentality is and he's got a great mentality- is that?
Speaker 1:how are people who don't know half the shit, so you know it gets me excited talking about this. You have Jamie Oliver. That kid is a kid. He's my age, maybe a little younger, but that guy is amazing. I mean the stuff that guy cooks on the normal he may not be as so, accolades may not be as strong, but his food and his cooking and his delivery and everything.
Speaker 3:He was a great advocate for children in schools school meals. He did great programs with that, making sure that the kids in Britain ate healthy and Jamie Oliver's he's good.
Speaker 1:I get Samsung products so I can get Samsung TV, so I can watch Jamie Oliver network on on flip all the time, and you know. But but then again you got Gordon Ramsey he came from Marco Pier right. All these great chefs. Now that list of Michelin chefs is long and I'm going back to when I'm talking about the older ones we all know, because I stopped having the ability and the luxury of following these chefs anymore. So the newer ones I don't really have locked down. I know who, they are just basic, but I don't know them as much as I do them.
Speaker 3:But before Marco and Gordon Ramsay. There was Albert and Michel Roux.
Speaker 1:These guys.
Speaker 3:They had the gavroche that was right around the corner from where I used to work To this day. One of my biggest regrets is I used to see Albert Roux every morning park his car. He used to drive this old 5 Series BMW on Park Street. I'm walking into work in the loading dock and I just wanted to say can I come and work in your kitchen Free? I would have done it free. I was just so scared because he was such an icon. He was a little short guy but he was the best.
Speaker 1:And I just regret to this day not asking that he probably would have said yeah, why not Now.
Speaker 3:I know that Looking back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially free, sure, Free labor.
Speaker 3:He's like come on in. But those are the times you get the best, some of the best.
Speaker 1:You know Anton Massiman and all those great French guys we were talking earlier in one of our earlier episodes that we just filmed not too long ago, about this very thing. You want to go work for free, while other people want to get a raise. The second week they're there. You look at guys like Grant Ackett and stuff. These are the guys who went and worked for free. They went to Charlie Trotter and asked him can I work for you for free? And then went to thomas keller, can I work for you for free? And then they get the job because of their determination and their grit and and that's where I like to be in that type of realm myself I like to do that. I work my ass off for free now because a lot of I'm yes the restaurant's, mine.
Speaker 3:The money comes later and I think what happens is that the generation nowadays, because of the internet and because of YouTube and all those things, I think they see the gratification immediately and they want that immediately. So some I'm not saying all, but maybe most are not willing to put in that work, especially not to work for free. I mean it's hard to work for free.
Speaker 1:It's very nice to put a plate that you plate. Okay, if you plate a plate, you have your sauce nice, everything's perfect, your sous vide is done perfectly and you crisp it off nice, and you braise everything right and you put it on a plate perfectly. You take your pictures and get 7,000 likes on it. That's great, because they're looking for those likes, but they have no idea what it takes to do that every single day, day in and day out, all day, 25 years in a row at the same restaurant. It's not reality.
Speaker 3:If you make a sauce, you know you make a demi-glace. You saw that sauce three days ago. You know you get your stock on brown off your bones and your onions and your mirepoix and the whole thing and then you've got to reduce out what you're going to do at night.
Speaker 1:You've got to figure out how many hours you have off where you can go home and simmer it.
Speaker 3:Can I leave it on? Can I leave it on?
Speaker 1:Can I leave it off? There's a couch right over there before every big holiday where. I have these big specials. People are like well, why don't you do an Iosobuco?
Speaker 2:Because I honestly don't have 14 fucking hours today you don't have the time of it, or?
Speaker 1:I can do it right, but it's not the same. If I want to keep that marrow right, if I want to keep everything from collapsing, if I want to keep my meat from sliding down that bone, that takes hours.
Speaker 3:That's where taste and the involvement of the experience of the dining comes into play, because you have to taste it and be there and smell it, whereas on the screen you can see that sauce and the sheen.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it tastes good and and you don't know if you taste it.
Speaker 3:They could have taken them 20 minutes to make.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, you still have that brigade style, I mean, in your kitchen. How has the kitchen changed over the years for you?
Speaker 3:coming from that old school to now. I mean I started off as a commis chef, which is the lowest of the low, and I was just learning by proximity. I mean I was working in a hotel kitchen and right next to it was a Michelin star restaurant it was called 90 Park Lane back then and I used to be able to jump over on the line and help them and learn a little bit. So that's where I learned. But you go from commis chef to first commis chef de partie, junior sous sous. I mean the brigades were big there.
Speaker 1:And then up to chef de cuisine, all the way through.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So the brigade systems were big because each station had their own person. You had your sauce, you had your fish, you had your meats.
Speaker 3:One person doing veg, one person doing sauce, one person doing sauces fish, yeah, the whole day.
Speaker 1:Totally different world here, where we don't have that luxury anymore because you simply don't have enough of one. We just don't have that style of cooking here. It's tough, it's different.
Speaker 3:One of the reasons I left there was I was working real hard in London. I was doing really well. And one day my sous chef said to me he says well, you've kind of reached as far as you can go, because I kept asking for promotions, not money, but I want to do a different section, I want to get higher. I was like no, for your age you're good, you're good. This is where you stay here. You'll be here for a couple of years. And I was like this is not right.
Speaker 2:This is bullshit. I know I can do better. You want to?
Speaker 3:work harder. I wanted to work harder and then my sister at the time was living over here in New York and I came over and hung out with her and it was a little too much like London. I said I can't do this.
Speaker 3:But then I had another sister who was here and she had married a Navy guy and was stationed in Norfolk and she lived in Virginia Beach. So I said let me go hang out with her for a while. And I was hanging out at Virginia Beach and just loved it. The ocean, shopping malls we didn't have shopping malls in England, you know and it was just beautiful. And I got real lucky. Somebody told me about they were doing a green card lottery. I don't know if you've heard of such a thing. Anyway, I entered for this green card lottery and won a green card lottery. I don't know if you've heard of such a thing. Anyway, I entered for this green card lottery and won a green card Second year.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 3:Which meant that I got to stay and work because I was having to go back and forth, go back and forth.
Speaker 1:So if you had a green card, you could be putting a lottery to keep it.
Speaker 3:No, once you got the green card, it was yours for five years and then eventually they ask you to become a citizen, Got you? Got sworn in by Pete Decker. It was cool.
Speaker 2:There you go buddy, Uncle Pete. Shout out to Pete we love and miss you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that was my story of being here, and once I was here I worked in restaurants where they valued you for who you were and what you could do, and not for your age group. So I found you could get a lot further in life.
Speaker 1:So what did you notice most about the cuisine change when you were over there? You were doing all the stuff. If you're next door to a Michelin restaurant that flows over a little bit, you may be a pub in England making fish and chips, but I guarantee they're fucking good.
Speaker 3:There it was. Major service, Like on your plate, was Maybe your protein and your sauce.
Speaker 1:Steps of service.
Speaker 3:Everything else was on the side. Your legumes, your vegetables came on one plate. Your starch came in a different plate. It was all. Your sauce came in a little. It was major, major, major.
Speaker 1:So just setting up for that, just setting up for all you who don't know the budget of what we put up with here. I try and do different steps of service. Here too, my proteins come a la carte and all the sides come on separate plates and everything's separated. Different, but what it goes through to get the steps of service, meaning the utensils and just the pourers and the boats and everything we need to make this happen. You hear a smash, there's another one Smash, there's another one. There's a chip on this plate, a break on that one there goes $10.
Speaker 3:It's all money. It's all money, everything and chemicals and dishwashers and you know that kind of stuff, and it all breaks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no matter what. Yeah, you just take your money, crumble it up and say we're going to use this, we're just going to throw this, we're going to use it for about a week and then we're just going to blight it on fire.
Speaker 2:We're going to throw it in the trash. Hasn't changed too much over time. You've kept staple things there's a couple reasons for that. Well, one of the reasons. I want to talk to you about was cost, because one of your signature dishes and you have a lot of signature dishes that people in this area like if you took them off the menu they'd probably murder you when you're walking outside.
Speaker 1:That's the problem we have here.
Speaker 2:So one of the signatures on your appetizers is the scallops Rockefeller and that has been there for a long time and we were just talking about the cost of scallops right now. So I mean you're dealing with a lot.
Speaker 1:Do you want to punch a scallop guy in the face? I'm telling you right now, I want to go down to Wanchese and get on the boat and I'm going to act like a scallop guy and act like they don't know me with the little glasses and the mustache.
Speaker 3:And then in the price of scallops and why are they so expensive. And he went into this long dissertation about of course they have their little script.
Speaker 1:They gotta rehearse.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, bullshit but it's, yeah, it's not good and they're expensive. But what do you do with that? Do you pass the that cost on to the to? Do you suck it up and take a loss?
Speaker 1:What do you do, bro? Well?
Speaker 2:what have you done? Because it is a staple, People know that appetizer and they go there specifically for that.
Speaker 3:And so that appetizer's there because people love it, and then you take it off and they're like what? Because people always say, well, when are you going to change the menu? And you have to make way for new things, and then they get upset because you took off one of their favorite things. So that appetizer is still on and I'm charging the same price right now, so we're not making as much margin on that. I mean, we're in the restaurant business to make money.
Speaker 3:That one you're not really making money on, not right now, but at some point, if the prices don't come back down on the scallops, then we've got to pass it on to the customer I unfortunately had to pass it on.
Speaker 1:We go through so many U8s here.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I run a U8, which is the biggest scallop we can pretty much get here and they're beautiful and they're succulent, they're great, but they're starting to become non-existent and those fishermen guys are going to tell you it's because they're so. No, they're no different. You just don't want no more because nobody wants to pay you your stupid money. And that's the thing. So they're going to be actually in huge abundance because I know you're not pulling them out of the water.
Speaker 1:They're out there, they're out there, so we all need to get a boat, maybe all the chefs in the area need to get a boat and just go in.
Speaker 1:You know, if it was up to me, when these things happen almost like gas prices if all the chefs in one region would just come for freaking, a month guarantee they'll come down because the fishermen are going to run out of money fast. They're robbing us, they're all robbing us and I don't have a problem saying that's the beauty of this podcast we can say whatever we want.
Speaker 3:You know, then we're robbing our clients of what they want that's right.
Speaker 1:So I have to go to market pricing on it. So I have to go to market because if I don't, we have to cut it out because they're going so ridiculous. Look, something that used to cost us $180 is now $390? For what? The gas prices went down, so it ain't the boat.
Speaker 3:What happened? I bought a 1020 dry scallops which was high $115, $120. Now it's over $200.
Speaker 2:So doubled.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 50%. I can't double the price of that dish on the menu because it's going to look ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Yeah you'd have an appetizer at $28. I mean $30.
Speaker 1:Right and the customer just simply doesn't want to hear it. They don't understand, and I don't blame them. They don't understand, they don't want to care why it costs us so much money. We try and keep our margins in the same percentage rate all the time. I'm not going to necessarily take a hit so much on the scallop, but I am going to have to raise the price on stuff that has a much bigger margin so we can make up for it. So we don't hit them on the scallops.
Speaker 3:Our guests are starting to learn, though. Just by them going to the grocery store and buying things, and things are so much more expensive in the grocery store, so they have to know that it's costing us the same. You know we're getting the same raise, yeah, and that's right. So they're starting to understand now why our prices are going up. What do you want to do? Do you want to go to the grocery store and buy a whole bunch of things, and then most of it usually goes to waste?
Speaker 1:right, most of it right, right, right so, and I was you can go to a restaurant.
Speaker 3:You buy your meal. You know it's a little more expensive than it used to be and it's good, but it's it's still on par with well, I mean as the, I guess the like home cook out of the three of us.
Speaker 2:Like I mean, you know I cook at home quite a bit and I cook everything just from learning in the restaurants over the years. So but I can go like say I get because we don't get cheap meat, so I'll go get good steaks or good salmon and I'm gonna spend, you know, probably 25, 30 bucks per steak at this grocery store and then I have to buy the sides and it's going to take me an hour to cook it. Then I have to clean up. So really that 30 bucks for a steak, if I come somewhere and pay 50 or 60 with the sides, everything, not having to do it like, is that really that much more? It's not. I mean so a lot of people I know, and even in other countries, like the groceries are so expensive, it is cheaper to eat in a restaurant.
Speaker 3:People are talking about the wine too. They're like well, I've seen this wine, I can get similar at the wine store or something I'm like. Well, you get your glass and sit in the wine store and drink your wine, or do you want to come to a?
Speaker 2:nice environment where we are. Have somebody open it, talk about wine, learn something from the sommelier, have a nice experience. You're paying for a lot more than just the food on your plate. You're paying for everybody else, that's there.
Speaker 1:I had a conversation with a gentleman the other day last week and we were talking about this very thing and it was a customer asking you know and I use the reference of going shopping you go shopping for yourself. Oh yeah, it's crazy. The prices are nuts. You are shopping for two people? Okay, we are shopping for 300 a night. We're buying enough meat for 300 a night. We're buying enough meat for 300 orders, not just you buying your one at home. So we have to break that down to everything that we have that's going to go bad all the fat we have to trim, all the butchering we have to do, the weight of those bones that we're just going to try and hopefully get a demi out of or something you know and that's also a risk, because we don't know.
Speaker 3:Not everyone makes a reservation, so we don't know if everyone's's coming tonight. So you don't want to buy too much food and then have it go to waste.
Speaker 1:And then you have the reservation, like we had last night at 12 Top. If you're listening, fuck yourself. We had a 12 Top last night that decided 30 minutes that they weren't coming to it. I wish I had their name. I'd call them right out. And then we have on the reservation platform that you have to pay a fine. That's the way it is now, because people are now cruising through and they're jockeying.
Speaker 2:They're making three or four reservations, so they have tables and they're canceling three of them.
Speaker 1:We lost a 12 top last night, which in turn we lost another four top because we had to use that four top to make the 12. So they don't understand that we lost the 12 plus the four.
Speaker 3:And they do that on a regular night.
Speaker 3:Tuesday, on Monday, monday night last night I find that they do that with us on special occasions, you know if it's New Year's Eve or Christmas Eve or those days. They want to book two or three places because they want to figure out where all their friends want to go, and then they make a final decision. But by the time they make the final decision it's 30 minutes before Sure. Sometimes they don't even let you know. So you've refused people. Even people come in walk-ins. You've said no, sorry, that table's sold, and then they don't show up.
Speaker 1:They don't show up and that's lost revenue.
Speaker 3:I mean each and every one of those seats. That's our revenue.
Speaker 2:That's our PSA for the general public that's listening. Don't be a douchebag. Don't be a douche.
Speaker 1:Don't be a douchebag and actually stick to it. My can't come all right, so do they.
Speaker 2:11 others, too, had the flu because I don't understand how they all had the flu everybody. So you're ruining everybody's dinner just because your kid is sick it's crazy like no, we're still going out like my kid will survive, they'll be, they'll be fine, just give them some nyquil.
Speaker 3:Yeah, give them the, give them tussin, put them in bed, they're fine, don't you know?
Speaker 1:they'll be there tomorrow when you get home now, when you're cooking in your restaurant, like she said, your menu has a staples on it. So do I and, uh, my, my guests have come to love it in both restaurants and and if you take it off you're gonna scare them away somewhat. So I run specials a lot. Every week I'll run new specials and I'll get a feel for them and then I'll replace, like you said, make way with some of those that come on. Good, and I love creating and I love doing that. My genre is italian. That's, that's where I come out of, so a lot of my stuff is multi-regional. I have, I have the luxury of having regions in italy that are so abundant in such amazing ingredients that I can just grab and grab and grab and keep going and inventing and come up with new ideas. Right, um, what style are? You're more of an american slash, euro bistro type of vibe. Where do you get your inspiration here?
Speaker 3:So I was French classically trained, so my inspiration is normally, you know, the French kind of cuisine. But I learned real quick when I opened up my restaurant that that wasn't going to fly. You know I was doing the French pretty food and you know the Nouvelle cuisine, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Back in 2000. This is in 2000.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my customers were like look, we're a meat and potatoes town, we're a resort town and I want my meat on the same plate as my vegetables and potatoes, and I remember seeing your stuff.
Speaker 1:I mean you were still plating with that French enthusiasm. You would take a short rib and you would run it out with a sesame demi.
Speaker 2:I'm making that up, but it's along the lines of what I remember, you do a lot of stacks.
Speaker 3:How.
Speaker 1:I was trained and that's what I knew. Your cabbage was julienne, your carrots were julienne. Right, All your verts was good they still are.
Speaker 3:But now you've got to read the room and you've got to realize what your clients want and you can not educate them, but you can show them what you're made of, but you don't take. I'm still training staff and they're happy. They're learning, but my customers are also happy at the same time. So it's, it's a balance.
Speaker 1:And then you kicked out this banging ass burger day.
Speaker 2:Oh, burger night. We were there all the damn time.
Speaker 3:The burgers came from when there was the great stock market crash and a lot of we were just selling filet, mignon and higher cuts of meat and stuff. And then everyone was like, where's my money? My stocks are gone. So I says, well, let me put a burger on the menu and just see what happens. So I put a burger on so couples would come in and the ladies would still get the filet and then the guys would get the burger. So they're mitigating the damages on the bill. On the check.
Speaker 1:Happy wife, happy life right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the burgers started selling. I said, try it one night and just see what happens. So we just picked a slow night, which was Tuesdays, and we said, well, let's do burger night. And people were literally lining out the door for these burgers. And then we just kind of started elevating the presentation and we did them on burger boards and we had the hand-cut fries.
Speaker 1:That we did because most people were just buying frozen fries and it's he's taking that french influence, that mindset, going back to where you, if you law, you can put a burger out, but if you're doing it in such a way that the ingredients are right and it's done, perfect. There's something to be said about that. Like I started doing my italian heritage mondays, because a lot of my stuff, all of my stuff my cooking is, is actually italian regional food. It's not the American Italian.
Speaker 3:Right, okay.
Speaker 1:But I do have a little passion for Italian American food because I am Italian American, my family is Italian, of course, but I was born in America and I grew up on a lot of that food Going to my friend's house who were third and fourth, fifth generation, going to fairs, festivals, everything I did growing up. So I do miss chicken, parm and all that stuff. Meatballs so I do miss chicken, parm and all that stuff, meatball shit like that. So we do it now Monday nights here and people love it. I mean, it's one of our busier nights in the week now we get the reservations all through the weekend.
Speaker 1:So I call it Meatball Madness or Meatball Monday, because I do a Wagyu meatball and we take a meatball. We put our twist, we elevate it and it's to die for it melts in your. It took me about three and a half months to perfect the recipe. I'm not kidding you. Just every day take a little bit up, third out of that, third into this, trying to get that right consistency. But it works and it's taking something as simple as a hamburger, putting a chef's twist and spin on it. Basically love and passion, doing it the right way and staying true to it and putting it out.
Speaker 2:And people like you have been going there for 20 years. I've been going there for 25 years, but also you like. I think you're the only place that has beef Wellington.
Speaker 3:So that was you know. So I get homesick, so you know. So we put fish and chips on the menu and you know they kind of argue. I'm from England, so who's going to do better fish and chips than I do? I need it.
Speaker 3:We need to go there, Well it is, and you have the Napoleon stack Like there's terms that are brought in, Like the beef Wellington. I do it like I learned it when I was in England, so we have it. French pâtisserie foie gras. Instead of doing a duxelles with the mushrooms which is just ground up, I do sauteed mushrooms and put it on there, Sure, and it's baked right and it's nice, and it's amazing and it's delicious and people love it.
Speaker 2:It's comfort, it's elevated comfort food.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's an art and you can't get that everywhere, so it's nice Some people come there on special occasions. I'm going to get the beef Wellington, but or you can get a burger, or you know it's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, you've diversified the menu a lot since the beginning, but I've loved seeing it and having some of those influences, because there really wasn't there, it was on the Boulevard, it was Napoleon's.
Speaker 1:I think it was Napoleon's. That was the only other kind of French. La Chambord was there too.
Speaker 3:La Chambord I worked at La Chambord before I opened Cobalt, so that was one of the first restaurants. It was the first restaurant Because when I came here I wasn't sure where to work and I was with my sister, I had this magazine called the Portfolio Magazine.
Speaker 1:Great magazine. I miss that magazine.
Speaker 3:And they had the top ten restaurants and I just faxed my CV.
Speaker 2:You're like faxed.
Speaker 3:Faxed it to these ten restaurants.
Speaker 2:Delivered it on horse and pony.
Speaker 3:And I remember it was the Sheraton Hotel in Norfolk called me back, coastal Grill called me back.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:And Frank Spapen at Le Champort. He called me back and I said well, let me go meet these people. And I met with them. And I met with Frank and he was this larger-than-life guy. He's from Belgium, he spoke seven languages. He came over for similar reasons to Virginia Beach. He met a lot of guys in Marbella, in Spain, through the Navy, and he came and set up a shop here. He was like oh, you know, you see all these things and you worked in London and you've got this great CV and I don't believe you. I don't believe you. I'll just work for you and we'll see what do you want to get paid?
Speaker 3:I said nothing, he said, I'll work for you for two weeks, for a month free and if you like me. Well, nice to meet you I love that, yeah, okay okay, let's try it. So after about three days it's like okay, how much you want you know. Yeah, perfect, that's right I was who I said that's good.
Speaker 1:So what about your um? What about your jamaican roots? Your parents are from jamaica, so does that come into your cooking?
Speaker 3:not often more. More comes into my temperament when I get home. Yeah, yeah yeah, french and Jamaicans are similar.
Speaker 2:You know, the French are throwing copper pans and the Jamaicans have the machete.
Speaker 3:Sometimes I'll do a little Caribbean to Istanbul, but not very often.
Speaker 1:I went to Jamaica for the first time two years ago maybe, and fell in love with the food. I didn't realize how, how kind of close it is to european style or mediterranean style of cooking. I mean, it does have its own twist too. It does have a lot of french influence. It's got its. It's got influences everywhere, but it's definitely its own thing. Yeah, you know how they cook their fish, the whole fish, all that, the oxtail, the slow braising this.
Speaker 3:A lot of it's using the organic produce as well.
Speaker 1:Sure, that's a problem.
Speaker 3:Which makes it different From the country, Like they're up in the country.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:St Catherine and Clarendon up there in the hills.
Speaker 1:They're getting good ingredients by mistake.
Speaker 3:Well, it's just right there, you just go outside.
Speaker 1:You've got sugar cane.
Speaker 2:Look how sugar cane Are an orange, yeah, yeah, callaloo, isn't that something? Yeah, it's amazing, it's all there it's and it's fresh. I love that. And yeah, dining there, like I loved. The places we stayed were pretty, yeah, pretty small, like they were smaller, so we got a little bit more of a local feel, yeah. And then obviously, we went and ate food trucks like I try and go, right, you know you want to go side of the road somewhere, especially there, because, like the chicken, it it's just amazing.
Speaker 2:And you know I'm a wimp, I can't do spices, so I, I, I tried and they.
Speaker 1:They were very kind to me in.
Speaker 2:Jamaica to help me out with the chicken, so I was like, all right, cool, um, but yeah, I love going to those places and seeing it. Um, yeah, you haven't done anything really with that on your menu. I'm not really surprised.
Speaker 3:More with the growing. So we grow a lot of our own produce now. But my grandparents they raise their own chickens and goats and pigs and cows and stuff and they're growing produce.
Speaker 1:And there's nothing better than that. I mean, you can't mimic that.
Speaker 3:When I was growing up in England, my mom was always like come out in the garden and grow this, and I was like no, I don't want to do this.
Speaker 1:And now that's all the things you do and the work you do and the hard work you do and the putting. You always get the good reviews, the good feedback. There's got to be times where you get just so pissed off because somebody is going to sneak in there with some bullshit and you just want to freak on them. Some bad reviews are good because you learn from them.
Speaker 3:Others, though let's talk about the others though. Some bad reviews are good, some are constructive and I take that constructive criticism and I show those reviews to my team and I say look, they were right, they called us out on this.
Speaker 1:I call that a good review.
Speaker 3:That's a good review.
Speaker 1:I call it a good review. You have good reviews and then you have those good reviews.
Speaker 3:It is what it is the reviews that I think you're talking about, where people jerk offs just want to either hear the sound of their own voices or they think that they're journalists and they want to write correct food critics I try not to pay too much attention to those, because I don't want to waste my energy on those people.
Speaker 3:I'd rather waste my energy on the people who've given us the good reviews. Yes, and that they come in and they tell us why they like it, and then we keep. We put our energy into that which is like 95. Because what's the point in putting your energy into the haters?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because you focus on them, they're taking your energy and then you're taking that good energy away from the people who support you.
Speaker 1:Sure, that's my feeling. It's a great feeling. It's a great thought because we do the same thing. So for every hundred great reviews we have, there's always the one or two and the ones you're talking about that are constructive. That's a good review because we can learn from it. If there's an obvious issue that they have, right away we find it, and that, to me, is where I spend my energy. The good reviews are a pat on the back saying phew, we did it, we made it through another customer, we did what we were supposed to do, they were happy, perfect. The ones that have the constructive, those are the ones I focus on, because there's fixable situations, solution there and we can make solutions, and then that makes us better in the long run. Right, Because you add those up, it becomes you get better and better, sometimes the bad ones.
Speaker 3:They talk about the cost. Well, I think this is too expensive and I think the shrimp were too small or whatever. And those people? They don't know what our costs are. Okay, well, check this out bro, she's going to read a review.
Speaker 1:It's literally like this review was meant for this conversation, all right, so this is what I do at the end of each show, I'll take a ridiculous review because it's not. It's fun. If you don't know how to have fun with it, either you're falling a victim to the hater too. Yeah, you got to know how, too. You gotta know how. You know what. You're an idiot. I don't like the way you're talking. Either you don't like my place. I don't like your review. You suck so let's do it.
Speaker 1:So we like to have a little fun with it, because people love this segment. She's gonna read a review that is about me. I may have read it I'm sure I have at some point but I haven't read it today, so I'm gonna respond to it.
Speaker 3:I respond to these like oh, he does online.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, you should read it it's great, it's like I do.
Speaker 1:I don't care, I don't care, because you want it's now. As everyone says, it's an open forum okay, let's do it.
Speaker 3:Does that start a thing?
Speaker 1:they love it. I think some people actually put some bad ones on there just to hear just to get him because they change it they put them back to five after they do they do they? Put it back to five like, hey, you did it, we got them all.
Speaker 3:Right, I just have to know.
Speaker 1:Sorry, yeah okay, great, it doesn't affect us, though there was two.
Speaker 2:I was going to choose from two this one is this one is very applicable, so it was almost meant to be. So one star review. This is jeff from chesapeake, virginia my name's jeff hi, jeff, my name is jeff my name's jeff.
Speaker 2:Um, all right, we were a few minutes early and sat in the bar lounge area until seated staff was plentiful and our server was very attentive. Appetizers were a challenge to choose as it was not clear if some of the items were not cooked or only seared. We had to ask regarding several items. The menu should clarify this on each item. Our entrees came out and I was shocked that the scallops on my plate were a total of three, but the plate is $40. My wife's halibut came out with only two ounces of fish, a scallop that was larger than the three I had on my plate and a prawn. She ordered the dish wanting the halibut based on the waitress recommendation, had no idea there was additional seafood. It's one of the popular dishes on your menu. She was not a fan of the shrimp.
Speaker 2:I observed the floor manager go to many tables. We did not get a visit. My one word summation would have been underwhelming in quotes. This was a custom special occasion, my birthday and one of my wife's gifts to me. The $170 tab no drinks ordered was over the top for the meals we received. Only our second time at Luce, probably our last. Noise and decor was good, but the subwoofer was getting too much of a workout. I don't know what the goal is for the music, but the thump of the bass was readily present. That's just an odd way to end this, but let's break it down. If we go to the first, we're going to break down this.
Speaker 1:Let's do it, it's great.
Speaker 3:I'm going there right now.
Speaker 1:First of all, should you clarify on your menu.
Speaker 2:If items are only seared and not cooked Now, that does indicate they're cooked.
Speaker 3:Okay, Well, before that they said that staff was very attentive and helpful. So if you've got a question, ask the staff. They'll tell you.
Speaker 1:I write this off to being embarrassed that they didn't know what they were getting, so on my menu the thing that's raw is. What they're talking about is a tuna crudo, or a carpaccio. So you should know what you're doing. It's a language barrier perhaps. However, when it says on there, raw crudo, that's raw.
Speaker 1:You need to know your room, read the room and understand what level of dining you're in and understand the language barrier of where you're going. If I go to a Chinese restaurant, I'm probably going to assume I don't know a lot of the things. I don't speak the language, cantonese or whatever it is. Yeah, so that's that. So learn what it is you want. Crudo means raw. That's Italian, we're in agreement. We're in agreement.
Speaker 2:Okay, All right, so entrees came out and we had this whole discussion on Scallops the plate $40.
Speaker 1:Okay, three scallops. These are. You ate scallops. For all those who don't understand what that means, that means there are eight units per pound. There's eight scallops in a pound. You got three of them, which means these scallops are like buttermilk biscuits. There's three of them. Okay, those scallops also break down to about $50 a pound. It's ridiculous. So that's the whole problem.
Speaker 3:That's a good portion. That's a huge portion. It's ridiculous. You have a nice entree, gives you room for dessert.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, we're not trying to overfill. You're not trying to overfill.
Speaker 3:You're not trying to send people home with takeout boxes. That's an additional cost for us as well that we have to show to the cost of your.
Speaker 2:We try to get you to get it all.
Speaker 3:And your bags and everything else.
Speaker 1:No, you're good, no, we get it. So $40. We're riling you up. It's on. I want some Jamaican to come out.
Speaker 3:No, I'm not no sir.
Speaker 2:Just give that man a machete. Let's go to town. All right, wife just halibut.
Speaker 1:I'm going to break down some more numbers for you folks out there. You ate scallop is one sides of a buttermilk biscuit. It's not two ounces of halibut. You don't know what the hell you're talking about. That dish right there is a pesci misto Misto in Italian means a mix, so it's a fish mix, 's a fish nugget and and we wouldn't waste the other two on nothing, so it's a four or eight ounce pieces is how we break down a 50 pound side of halibut if anyone knows what that is, at 27 a pound. So we have to get 100 or 200 pounds of it to break it down three times a week. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. So 27.99 is a part of halibut right now and that's why it's priced. Now the prawn they're talking about you'll laugh at this. I get U3 prawns, full prawns.
Speaker 3:Not a shrimp, it's a prawn, it's a prawn Right Difference, little spike.
Speaker 1:So a U3 shrimp means there's three of them to a pound. It's this. It's the size of a lobster, a small lobster, okay.
Speaker 3:So I don't know what more jeff wanted on his plate, but it's 40 bucks no, so the the scallop dish is 40, the the the scallop.
Speaker 1:They're both. The scallop dish is 40 and the other one is actually like 39 it's like 40. It's like 40 it's inexpensive for what it is. I mean it's beautifully done. I mean there's broccolini in it. It's really good.
Speaker 3:Yes, hand-tossed breadcrumbs they get vegetables and everything.
Speaker 1:It's a roasted dish in a beurre blanc type of champagne.
Speaker 2:They're just not understanding the language of what the dish is supposed to be. So they said, they asked I mean yeah, apparently you didn't ask the right questions, so she's not a fan of that Floor manager. Didn't get to their table, so they're pissy about that.
Speaker 1:Probably didn't need to, probably everything looked like it was going good, they're not going to bother you if you're on a date for your birthday.
Speaker 1:They leave you alone here. This is not Bennigan's or anything like that. Okay, Our managers don't check in to every single table. We will stop by on anniversaries, birthdays. We will stop in if there's time to check in, if everything's going okay, but typically our job is to leave you alone and let you dine. We have so many steps of service here that you don't need another one. You know there's between our SAs, our servers, assistants, our servers, our hosts, our hosts, our maitre d'. There's plenty of people.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of people touching your table, yeah there's a lot of people and people touch, like you know. The wine person will come by or the manager will just stop by and say hi, but you don't need to be.
Speaker 1:You don't need to be. You'll sit up at the table for you know, 20 seconds For sure they're not refilling your water every 30 to where they spent $170 for food. You got away easy, bro. No, no, no. How the hell did you do that?
Speaker 2:No, but for two people. Your dishes were both $40, and you spent $170 with no drinks. So, that's only half. So what other $80 in food did you order that you did not mention in this review?
Speaker 1:Well, right and as far as the base, we are an up-tempo restaurant the weekends. Weekends we have a three-piece jazz band on Friday and Saturday night in the dining room. Other times we play a Euro type of trendy house type of style of music. It works very well for everyone else that comes here besides Jeff.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, you'd think you'd like the bass. It's like extra. This is their second time.
Speaker 3:How did they not know what to expect?
Speaker 1:I don't understand. That's the question. That's why I read these out, because somewhere out there someone who read this might be watching this show and I want them to understand that we have the same accessibility to call you out as you do us, and it's a two-way street now. That's the beauty of it. And a lot of restaurateurs are afraid to do that because they don't want to open that can of worms Me. I'm a worm can opener from way back.
Speaker 2:You're fishing. You're fishing all the time I'm looking for trout, whatever you want, halibut.
Speaker 3:Well, sometimes it just gets into this back and forth.
Speaker 1:It does, it does banter Sure, no, no, you're absolutely right about that.
Speaker 3:And then they want to rise out of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:You want the good meal or do you want the rise out of the chef, scallop and eat it too.
Speaker 2:These things make me laugh.
Speaker 1:When I look at that thing that person had a bad experience and it escalated and they had to throw in the base because the story just needed to really have that final punch.
Speaker 3:They had a bad experience. Or your birthday, really sucked they just said they weren't agreeable with the prize or the size.
Speaker 1:That's worth one star that hurts our whole team.
Speaker 3:That hurts our team. That hurts our team. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So that hurts our team. You know, for Yelp you have to go 15 five star reviews in a row to get your next point. Yes, Okay. So if we're on 14 and you just did this, Jeff, because you didn't understand it, you just took us all the way back to zero.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you're uneducated, self.
Speaker 1:That's why I get on here and that's why I talk shit to people on that, because you not only made your point, but you just screwed our fucking entire team. If you're the 14th problem and that's happened multiple times- Our system is interesting.
Speaker 3:One of my best friends owns a restaurant in town and they always rave about his restaurant and it was great, the entrance was great and the flowers and the environment and the service and the staff and and it was really good and had a good time and the the best fried shrimp and you know and four stars every day. He'd never built. Never give him five stars. The same thing here.
Speaker 1:I don't know. It's a new trend because this just happened. Started happening in the last six months because now it's every. If you look at my reviews, Everything is perfect. Immac best time ever. Here's all the pictures. Look at this food. Four stars.
Speaker 3:I think they're saving the fifth star for, like, when they go to Bernadino, when they go to Alenia there's already people doing that when they go to.
Speaker 1:Alenia, but that's what I think. I think so, maybe yeah.
Speaker 2:That is yeah. Whatever the fuck that is Elite. Yeah, so that was on par for the whole conversation with you today.
Speaker 1:But that was great. Yeah, thank you everybody who does take their time to put in a review period.
Speaker 2:Or understand food cost Right.
Speaker 1:If you put in the time to make a review, that means you took the time to come here in the first place. Yes, but if you are the ones of the thousands who put in the good reviews, we truly appreciate you. You are our fuel, and he can attest to that and the ones who do have actual issues out of our control. Food cost is not in our control. We would love to give you as much as you can for less, because we want more people coming, so let's get that out of here and if you have a bad issue, please call us directly or email us directly.
Speaker 1:Correct, there's a chef out of here and if you have a bad issue, please call us directly or email us directly. Correct, there's a chef or a manager.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not necessarily put it out on.
Speaker 1:Sure, if you're really wanting to help, that's it. But if you want to make your cause better, you'd probably get more results out of having a good review than a bad one, because a lot of people brush through the bad ones to read the good ones. No one wants to stars yeah, they're not going to look for the two that were bad because it's so.
Speaker 3:I don't mind a shaky review in that anyway, because sure, if you always get good reviews, good, good, good, good, no one's going to believe it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's gotta be sending in nice reviews, right, right, you know so tomorrow I'm gonna go on yours and just leave you a really bad review that you respond to, and I'll change it later, just for fun.
Speaker 1:Just screw with Alvin, don't do that?
Speaker 2:Please don't do that everybody.
Speaker 1:So if you're going to take a review on somebody, take your time and do it right. Really, pay attention to what it is you're doing to them and the team. Sometimes your words really aren't going to be as seen as you thought, but that stupid one star does mess something up. It does. So if that in you it is. But as of right now I would like to say this I would like to say tell them where we can find you.
Speaker 3:There you go.
Speaker 2:We are. Where are they going? We are Cobalt.
Speaker 3:Grill in the Hilltop North Shopping Center in Virginia Beach, corner of Laskin Road and First Colonial, and online. Online, we are CobaltGrillcom with an E, so C-O-B-A-L-T-G-R-I-L-L-E Cobalt Grilly Cobalt Grilly.
Speaker 1:Because you can charge a little more when you're grilly than when you're grilled.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, it's like when they call it pommes frites you can charge more.
Speaker 3:You can charge more.
Speaker 2:Okay, I like it Add an and they have great. So meet me there for Burger Night.
Speaker 1:Tuesday night's Burger Night Go check them out.
Speaker 2:Make a comment below what else you see. Don't forget to hit like and subscribe on this show.
Speaker 1:Shut up, give us all the support, hit, like and support on this show and you know where to find us. We'll be here every time. Check us out on YouTube, facebook, where else? We at Chris.
Speaker 2:Tell them On Apple, spotify, all of the above anywhere you search. Burnt Hands Perspective Is that okay, that was nice.
Speaker 1:That was nice, that was bedroom voice. That's not it. No, I don't know your bedroom voice.
Speaker 2:How the hell do I know?
Speaker 1:I'm just assuming.
Speaker 2:It's the end of the show. We do not need to get the climax at the end of the show.
Speaker 1:The sun's still out. All right, the sun is, I'll do that later alright, great, well listen. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for checking us out.
Speaker 2:Ciao for now thank you, alvin ciao, thank you guys.
