Burnt Hands Perspective
This is a raw and unfiltered look into the pu$$ification and state of the restaurant industry as a whole, powered by longtime friends Chef/Owner Antonio Caruana and former bartender turned News Anchor/TV Host Kristen Crowley.
Representing all aspects of the industry from the front to the back of the house we will dig into the juiciest stories and pull from decades of experience in one of the sexiest and most exciting industries in the world...the food and beverage industry.
From international chefs, sommeliers, industry pros, and so much more, this show will cover all of it without a filter. You turn up the volume; we'll turn up the heat.
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Burnt Hands Perspective
Ep 33 - Your Hobby Is Not A Business: Hard Truths About Serving The Food Industry - The Reality of Vendors
The brutal reality of restaurant industry demands and the challenges faced by small artisan vendors trying to break into the market create a perfect storm of failed businesses and frustrated chefs.
• Micro vendors like microgreen farmers, artisan bakers, and hot sauce makers often start with passion but lack business acumen
• Small food businesses frequently underestimate the relentless schedule and consistency demanded by restaurants
• Chefs operate in an "I need it now" mentality because their business demands immediate solutions
• Most small artisan vendors don't survive beyond 1-2 years due to burnout and lack of systems
• Successful food businesses require both love of the craft and understanding of business fundamentals
• The restaurant industry timeline typically sees profitability around year 5 if you survive the early struggles
• There are no shortcuts to success - you cannot skip the process of building a sustainable business
• Small vendors need ironclad contracts, business plans, and to keep their day jobs while building
Don't be mad at chefs when they move on because you're inconsistent. Don't play the victim card when you're a business that delivers. If you think you're a delivery business, get your deliverables to the door. If not, get out of here.
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Speaker 1:Here we are, here we are. It's us. I say it every time I need a new catch line. It's us. I say it every time I need a new catch line.
Speaker 2:It's okay, we'll go with that catch line. It's fine how?
Speaker 1:are you feeling today?
Speaker 2:I'm good. I'm good, I'm ready. I think we haven't done one of these where it's just us shooting the shit about stuff. In a while it's been a while, so.
Speaker 1:I'm going to say mi sento fabuloso, which means I'm feeling fabulous.
Speaker 2:Oh good, I'm glad you're feeling fabulous.
Speaker 1:Okay, today, yeah, we're talking to ourselves. You know, we talk to people all the time, and what we do a lot of times when we do that is we forget, or I forget, rather, that I have a lot to say myself. So we usually focus on other people's opinions and thoughts, which is amazing. It's great. That's why we do this, right, because we talk to people all day long. Why not get it on camera? Some of the conversations we have, conversations with people that should be recorded? I mean, you hear it all the time. Imagine if we had this on film. That's kind of what we do, but we never talk about ourselves or our own feelings, sometimes because we're trying to capitalize on another type of conversation, right? So I have a lot of things I like to say about the restaurant industry and the chef industry, and I don't really get a chance to say them either, because I'm typically doing it.
Speaker 2:So well, we're going to take that opportunity today and we're going to kind of go back to, I guess, what the grassroots were when Burnt Hands started of giving opinion and kind of how the industry is developing. And I know there's one topic we've talked about a couple of times that you want to touch on is kind of sustainability in the industry for outside businesses like the micro green farmers and the people who are bringing things in and what you've seen as a chef, with the cost, the longevity of those businesses and the issues it causes for you.
Speaker 2:So a lot of topics I think we can go over today.
Speaker 1:I call them, or what they call themselves, maybe rightfully so, maybe not artisans, right.
Speaker 2:Like artisan vendors. Is that what you would say, artisan vendors?
Speaker 1:yeah, I guess you could say microvendors or something, not to be confused for micro greens or micro breweries. They're just micro vendors Like small local, small local. Right, if they were back in the ye olde time of blacksmiths and what do you call that era Renaissance time they would have their own little ye olde micro green shop Little shop, and that would be only the people around them get it Correct right it.
Speaker 2:And that would be only the people around them get it Correct right. It would be their little village, okay, village.
Speaker 1:Village, village. So that's what I'm talking about. So what happens here is that as chefs right, we grow and we continue to grow. As we age Typically, we start young we all have the same ideas, ideologies, ideologies of grandeur and hate and discontent and all that bullshit the party. We already know about all that. But as we grow, our demands grow right, and the more serious we become, the more serious the people with us need to come with us, right? So what? What happens is we have this huge influx of these small pop-up type of industries micro green people, farmers, um people who make sauces. The hot sauce industry, the um People who make sauces. The hot sauce industry. The dry-aged meats now is a huge thing Wet aging, vegan right, we got the vegan stuff.
Speaker 2:A lot of vegan bakers.
Speaker 1:A lot of vegan bakers and the gluten-free stuff. We have a lot of gluten-free stuff. Not bashing any of these by any means. This is a clear conversation, right, but what people need to understand when they get involved with it how they're fucking up my life and other chefs life is how this happens and that's what people need to understand before they jump into this stuff. The restaurant industry is grueling. It's bullshit. It's a long story, man. It's not a quick chapter, it's a long fucking story, and what I recommend to most people is get into the story before you get into the chapter, right, your chapter.
Speaker 1:I'm going to use microgreens as an example. Yeah, you deal with a lot of Not picking them out but they are the Turnover. They are one of the biggest turnovers that we do have. You're right, perfect word turnover. So what happens is this Somebody's excited, they start growing something. They have a horticulture or they want to grow things. They end up growing it. Micro greens grow quite rapidly, they grow quick. So you have a quick, you have a quick, like a return on it.
Speaker 1:Not so much a return, but what is it when you're happy? God damn, I can't even think right now. You appreciate the.
Speaker 2:You're getting a dopamine hit off your Whatever man, whatever.
Speaker 1:Let's move on. Dopamine, hit off Whatever man, whatever. Let's move on. It's legal greens. Yeah, you get what I'm trying to say. You get an instant reaction from it. You feel good about it. It's gratification. There we go. There it is so you get a gratification of it. It grows. Now you give a couple of those to your friends. They all get it because now it's growing. Now you go out to amazon, you build yourself a little greenhouse or wayfair or whatever. You get yourself a greenhouse and then you start producing more and more and more. Right, yeah, beautiful. Now you bring those to the restaurant. Everybody's happy. Now you start making different things the am amaranth, the red vein, sorrel, all the hits, the micro basil, the cilantro, all these little things, the baby arugulas, all the things that are popular and gaining traction every time. Okay, so first thing you do, you start bringing it. Now you're excited about it. There's the mistake right there. You started.
Speaker 2:Well, you started but I think you need to elaborate because this is kind of like this episode is kind of a warning for people who want to get into it too, cause it's like before you get into it.
Speaker 1:Know these things. So this is what you need to know. You need to know how a restaurant operates when it comes to demand and consistency and being persistent. You need a routine. You need to understand the routine and you need to understand it is so demanding that you're not going to get a break, because true chefs and restaurateurs do not get a break. We don't take breaks, we. The only break we take is at the end of the shift or whatever it may be, but we know everything is ready and in line for tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Holidays are out, weekends You're working. You know it's seven days a week.
Speaker 1:So what happens? Like I said, they, they get into this growing thing. They get going next thing, you know, they start bringing the product and they're happy about it. They tell all their friends, they get their cards right. We get the story six months into it, though. What happens is well, it's not so fun anymore. Now you need to bring it it's an actual business now the chefs are demanding it.
Speaker 1:Yeah now it's like where the hell is my micro greens? It's tuesday, yeah, but I didn't want. I wanted to go to the beach. It's like where the hell is my microgreens? It's Tuesday, yeah, but I want to go to the beach. It's the first nice day of the spring Well, I don't give a shit. I need my damn microgreens now.
Speaker 1:Well, you wanted to go on vacation last week so you never planned a growing regimen while you were away. So half your plants dried, died, none of them grew. You didn't seed. You figured you'd do it when you get back, but we all know micro basil takes six weeks or five weeks, whatever to grow, so you didn't put that into place. Now you put everybody on hold. See, now you want to stop doing it because it's easier to just back out. Now, because now you're getting a little bit of a harsh talk to you. You're getting messages saying where's my shit? It becomes stressful now. So the joy of it is gone.
Speaker 1:So what you took as a hobby and tried to turn around and make money. You realize it probably wasn't as lucrative as you thought. Right, you're probably just paying off your money, your greens and everything, because you really haven't put a business plan in place yet and you were just hoping it was going to go on and it started getting worse, almost like a bad relationship. It started getting worse before you admitted it and then it piled up and you got jammed in it. So that's what you need to do is understand that before you get into that, you need to know what you're doing. You know dry agers same thing. Hot sauce people same thing. Um, gluten-free desserts, bakery pastries, even even a lot of artisan bakers now that have nothing to do with other than just making a nice sourdough right. They have their beagle or their starter it's a good thing and they create this world and they don't understand that it's not going to stop. It's only going to get worse.
Speaker 2:It's going to grow and people are relying on you to produce a consistent product for them to run their business. So, they're putting you in jeopardy. Every time they say this or they bow out and decide it's too hard.
Speaker 1:I, every time they say this or they bow out and decide it's too hard.
Speaker 2:I mean sure, I think, pandemic wise. In general, a lot of people started hobbies that turned into businesses. So like you call it like a, like a what did somebody call it once? A jobby? So it's like a job, a hobby.
Speaker 1:So it's like it's really not a business.
Speaker 2:You don't know what you're doing. You have zero business acumen, so what makes you think you can run this when it grows to having 10 accounts and having to deliver every other day, right?
Speaker 1:do you know how hard it is to bake bread? Period. I don't like baking bread because of the regimen it creates. It creates such a system, right well, it creates such a system in a restaurant to where your restaurant portion of where you do your baking ends up becoming a fucking bakery it's just a bakery, and then if your baker's sick or if you don't want to do it now you have to do.
Speaker 1:It becomes a consistent drama. Now, the work ethic behind it. It's not a lot of physical, it is physical label labor it is. It is manual, yeah, but it's not as manual as, say, some other things landscaping, cutting wood, things of that nature right, but it's demanding every single day of the fucking week and people aren't doing it. So what does that mean? We have a hard time finding breads.
Speaker 1:I'm going to my new market in delhi and I'm looking for a great bed you've been hunting already I'm already through almost 25, 30, uh, 30 samples of different bakers because it's all mass produced now the product's all the same. It's all getting redundant, artisan. You know there's nothing artisan about it, right? It's? Uh, it's bullshit, is what is? You're getting a lot of the Philly cheesesteak style of soft bread. I'm looking for that crusty, nice and tinsy You're looking for like a rustic.
Speaker 1:Italian, yes, a rustic sourdough or a rustic Tuscan style of boulet or something like that. So it's hard to get that because nobody wants to do it anymore. So they're afraid of the consistent work, I think. I think that's what happens. So that's what I think is happening. And what's going wrong with the restaurant industry right now is that level of commitment that people don't understand what they're getting into. And this goes all the way to chef school. Man, kids are getting involved in chef school right now, but the chef school's forgetting to tell them about the other stuff, because the chef school now that that's a competition. Before, back in the day there was only three or four good ones that were reputable and you went to them and that was it. They taught you the brigade systems. Now they're not teaching you the glory I mean the non-glory. They're not teaching you the uh, the abuse that goes on mentally in the kitchen. They're not teaching you about the hours become so pc about it.
Speaker 2:They're. They're trying to teach you what a kitchen should be, not what a kitchen is correct, and they want to sell the dream, so they're going to teach you what a kitchen should be, not what a kitchen is Correct and they want to sell the dream.
Speaker 1:So they're going to teach you the dream and you purchase the dream. So you go back to school, your friends go to school. Half the school is freaking internship or externship anyway, and you're in someone's restaurant anyhow, so you're paying them to be somewhere else. It's a fucking joke, kind of you know. Going to school is not a joke. Going to chef school is not a joke. But how they turned it around to make it so it doesn't you know. I guess the point of this fucking talk right now is work work.
Speaker 1:Consistency, consistency. It's nothing's going to come to you for free. You have to understand that.
Speaker 2:As a chef, like when you're looking at these small companies who again turned a hobby or green thumb or some type of talent into a business and it's not quite a business like. What advice do you have for the people that like is it worth sticking with it? Like you can grow this into a six-figure, seven-figure business if you really want it like anything. Yeah, yes, and have you seen that, like I mean, is there any that have really made it past? Like year, one or two, like what's it usually look like.
Speaker 1:Let me back up Beep, beep, yeah, beep. Back that ass up, back that ass up. So as I back this ass up right here, I'm going to tell you this I've only seen the ones that you see. Now, if you go to a huge like Keeney dry aging out of Boston, or you get these big Pat LaFrieda who makes dry age a thing, they took it and ran with it to the point where now they're doing it for millions of people and they're doing millions of pounds of cattle.
Speaker 2:They scaled.
Speaker 1:They have cattle farmers. They scaled right. For the most part, though, to answer that question, no, no, I've never seen a micro green guy make it. I've never seen a micro green guy make it. I've never seen a big, uh, local, um, vegan baker go to the next level. I've never seen it. I always see them shut down in a year or two because it became too much, too much, or they're just tired. That's the big thing. I'm just tired, I'm worn out, motherfucker, I'm worn out. Well, I think I'm worn out from this shit every day, these excuses. I'm worn out. You know what I mean? It's god damn man, of course we're all I mean.
Speaker 2:you get tired and it's a relentless schedule and it's a like unforgiving schedule most of the time and it doesn't make any difference for the people who support the industry, but I think that in general, smaller businesses need to realize that just having you know we've talked about this with branding and marketing in general like just having an Instagram or a website does not make you a business and unless you start putting systems in place. So from like my side of like building brands and seeing how they start to fail, if they don't have systems like for processing invoices, contracts, you know, daily systems, have the website, have the complete funnel in place, then they will fail. So I think for people who are starting out, some advice for them would be to start, you know, building your system of how you want the business to be, not how it is at the moment.
Speaker 1:Sure, and with that, exactly what you're saying. So fall people fall in love with the craft before they fall in love with business.
Speaker 2:Nobody loves doing admin shit and sitting online no, Nobody loves that.
Speaker 1:But when it becomes your, when your craft becomes the vehicle for business, you have to learn how to love business, because if you don't, you're only going to love your craft and the business is always going to wash it out. Or vice versa. Some people get into business because they love business and they open up a restaurant and don't know shit about the craft. So same thing goes that way If you're going to open up a restaurant because you love the business, end of it, which happens all the time. You know, you've got a lot of people financially who want to turn to the restaurant business to funnel money or to do what they want to do, and they don't really understand or really appreciate or love the craft. From what we're talking about, though, we're talking about the craftsman you need to have some sort of understanding. You don't have to fall in love with business, but you have to understand business.
Speaker 2:You have to understand at least some of it.
Speaker 1:You have to understand the restaurant business, not only business or what you're doing to maintain.
Speaker 2:but you have to understand the restaurant business or the nuances of what you're going to, what the expectations are, what you have to deal with the deliverables.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, and you're. I mean, I'm not saying you're demanding, but you do have very high standards. Well, I am demanding, I am demanding, I am, but I expect and I demand that people who come to me should already know where they're coming. Yeah, so I don't really demand you go find this. I feel you should have already had it before you came to Mindwood. Yeah, you should know. So you know, and there's chefs out there way more demanding than me. Man, it just depends on who you are. I say this If you want to do microgreens, let's keep using that as a thing. Sorry, microgreen guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we love you. You do a great job, it's just a good example.
Speaker 1:If you really want to get into that field per se or the restaurant, ask the chef if you can sit back and sit there and watch and watch a shift or two in the kitchen from the beginning to the end. Learn what they're doing back there with your product. Watch how they're in a hurry going to cut your product. Watch what they're doing, how they're using it, how they're using it so you understand their determination and why there's so much haste involved in their requests, because everything they're doing is hasty. Everything we do is in the moment.
Speaker 2:Everything's on the fly.
Speaker 1:So when we're out of the kitchen, where am I? I'm on the fly, always, always, always. So I want my coffee. I want it now. I need it now because I want it right now, and if I don't get it now, I may. It's just how we're programmed. For 30 years you got to figure, 10 hours a day of my life has been now. I need it now. I need to eat now. I need to rest now. I need to sit down now. I got to take a shit right now. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's all right now. It's all right now I think there's a lot of things, though, like when you, as a as a chef owner, ever going to work as hard as you and no one's going to put as much effort in as you. So I think that's hard when you're dealing with smaller businesses, because you expect them to be the same way.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it's like it's like almost like Bahama time, like they're, you know, the service is going to be slower when you go to certain areas of the world, like they just don't have that sense of urgency we do here. So I think it's kind of, you know, it's a U? S thing and I mean all kitchens are busy, but some are a little bit slower and they kind of have that mentality. So they, they're never going to be you, they're never going to keep up to that pace.
Speaker 1:But Shouldn't they like you said, shouldn't they I like?
Speaker 2:money I like making money, so I don't know why you would build a business that's actually formidable and is making you, you know, a good, a decent return, I mean, as long as your profit margins are good and you're enjoying it, it's a good business. So to just let it fall, I don't understand how people nowadays are paying their bills because they just don't work.
Speaker 1:That's what I want to know.
Speaker 2:I would love to know how. I mean, is it all OnlyFans Like? Is everybody on there?
Speaker 1:I don't know, man. I'm saying We've got people raising their hand back here.
Speaker 2:We just started an account, so it's okay.
Speaker 1:Only pans.
Speaker 2:Only pans.
Speaker 1:So it's oh, we're doing that now. Yeah, we're going only pans, we're doing only pans. Get on the network.
Speaker 2:Is it like sexy pan photos? Oh my gosh, can we?
Speaker 1:do that, you got the.
Speaker 2:Just holding it, like two of them, over your.
Speaker 1:Over my tits Right, oh my gosh. Okay, random ideas I got like a gravy boat down here over my junk.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God.
Speaker 1:So you know it's, it's.
Speaker 2:Back on topic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's all fun, though I mean, this is the stuff we're talking about, but you want to make money.
Speaker 2:So if you're starting these businesses and you have like you're good at it and you're good at growing, or you're good at mixing or your flavors, or you're a great baker, I mean it's going to be hard. Like you have to understand. You have to work every fucking day, like it's not going to be the same. Can I do it?
Speaker 1:tomorrow. People that are always going to bother me. Yeah, can I get it done tomorrow? How about this? Hey, you shorted me a tray of this or I didn't get. I'm too low of short. Yeah, can you make it till tomorrow? Sure, I would have called you fucking tomorrow. You know what I mean. That's what I need it now. I want it now because I paid you already today. You know what I mean. So if you don't get in your damn car and drive over here, you're not looking to secure my trust in you. Your integrity is shook, man. You know what I mean. You got no time for halfway crooks here most people don't make.
Speaker 2:I mean most businesses. I don't know if you know the like average number of restaurants, like how long they'll stay open before they fail.
Speaker 1:Three years is typically the go time. You know five years is success. Two years, people, it depends on who you're talking to. Two years financially. If you can get past the first two years financially and get yourself somewhat out of the red and almost borderline black, you're doing all right. You're going to the third year. You should be coming out of it by and almost borderline black, you're doing all right. You're going into the third year. You should be coming out of it. By your fourth year you should start seeing a little bit of a percentage up and then by your fifth year you should be turning profit and then you're on your way. Typically, that's kind of a good little baseline to go on and we're talking about not I'm not talking about a $20,000 pop-up hot dog stand.
Speaker 2:I'm just, I'm just I wanted to kind of compare that and we talked about this on the episode with Thick Eats too that people during COVID always they all of a sudden went to I can create a business online and make six figures in a month, so in 30 days I can make $100,000 if I do a course or I do whatever they want that they think that the money is that easy.
Speaker 1:They want instant money right now.
Speaker 2:And there's no trade work. So the trades have gone down, we know that. But the trades pay insanely well, sure, and that's any industry. So I think, if your business lasts over that like three year mark, I think that's just not restaurants and that has to do with your.
Speaker 1:That has to do with your commitment to your own interest. They, people, lose interest and that's why it starts to fail. They forget to watch the books. They'd rather go spend money, whatever it may be, or they're just no longer have the passion anymore because what they thought was love was only lost. You know, I'm saying put it in a little bit. You got to tip in and realize the same for me. You know what I mean you got teased you got teased a little bit. Then you got teased with some action.
Speaker 1:You thought it was good you were getting some right, then all of a sudden pull it, all went dry, that's right.
Speaker 2:Like unintended yeah daddy's home.
Speaker 1:It's so bad. So that's what happens is that a lot of people don't stick with it because they don't stay in love with what they're doing and it becomes a job. And the people like I was talking about before. I want things now. What I don't want and what I understand won't come right now, is the money. What I want is everything that's going to help me get the money later. I need that right now because if I don't get that, it's not going to build. Other people who don't understand that want the money now and bypass everything else, and that's the failure.
Speaker 1:That's the failure. And here's a tip for everybody okay, there is no skipping that fucking process ever. You will not get by. You will not skip the process of being successful. You're not just going to do it. No one's going to make you successful. No one's going to come to take your hand and hand their success off to you. No one's going to give them their cape and say, here's mine, now you can keep my success and I'm going to go hide out in the woods. No one's going to do that. People will guide you and mentor you. People will bring you to the light.
Speaker 1:It's up to you to go the rest of the way. Once you get there, you have to maintain your own. So you're not going to skip it. You're not skipping the work. You're not skipping the ethic. You're not skipping the commitment. You're not skipping the commitment to other people. There's no way around it. So that's my biggest take out of all this is, if you're going to think you're going to have some small pop-up thing and service the restaurant or the food hospitality industry, you need to realize that you have to do it all on your own. You're going to be there and accessible as long as you are, and then we are going to move on because we don't have a choice.
Speaker 2:Don't be mad at the restaurant or the chef, because they don't want to use you because you're inconsistent. Don't stop placing blame and playing the victim card when you are a business that delivers.
Speaker 1:Perfect, exactly. If you think you're delivered, get your deliverables to my fucking door. If not, get the hell out of here. It's that easy because we don't have time to. Oh, my car broke down. My antifreeze leaked all over the driveway. My cat drank it and shit his brains out outside and died. I'm sorry about your cat. That's horrible. However, my microgreens aren't here, so what's that mean?
Speaker 2:I just care about my microgreens.
Speaker 1:What does all that mean? So this is the third time in a row that this happened. How many cats do you have? You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So Cat has nine lives.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nine lives Same cat Fucking 15 cats Same Right.
Speaker 2:They're all almost dead. Yeah, so I mean in closing, I think that the biggest takeaway for anybody who wants to start any kind of support business or anything that's pushed into a restaurant as a product do your work, make a business plan, actually set what you're going to do up for the next five years, make a five-year plan, make a 10-year plan and then know those first one to two years. You may not make any money, so you better keep your actual job, because you're not going to just go right into this business and make money and keep your real job until you can afford to not work, Whatever that job is that pays your bills.
Speaker 1:And if you really want to be successful, keep your fucking word. That too, keep your word. And if your word is to yourself or to the industry, or to the people who hired you or believed in you, keep your fucking word and you'll find out. If you keep your word that you gave to successful people, they will, they will, it will pay you back and you will become the next successful person. Give your word to three successful people.
Speaker 2:You're going to be the fourth.
Speaker 1:Exactly Period. That's an old saying, but I say it all the time. It was told to me and I never understood it until I was that guy and with everyone else.
Speaker 2:Use an ironclad contract correct because I like my contracts, I don't use them enough and I get fucked.
Speaker 1:I can name a million times I should have used a real contract.
Speaker 2:I've seen it happen too many times. I am big on both. Let's just do both as a business. Build it as an actual business. Stop making it a jobby, A jobby. It's not a jobby, it's an action.
Speaker 1:It's not a jobby to have a hobby. All right, listen, we're getting weird, so I like it. So listen, have a great day, kristen. I'm going to talk to some other people about this. I think there's a lot of people out there who need to hear this, and I would like to bring on some of these small people because I want to see their point of view. It's easy for me to sit here and say that and point them and say this, that and the other, but I want to hear their point of view of what it's like to work with a fucking demanding chef who's always up. He's up their ass.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe great. So if anybody out there listening knows any anyone who would fit that, go ahead and tag them below in the comments. Make sure that you share the channel with them where they can like and subscribe and follow along with kind of the message of the show. I think they'll understand. None of these are like bashing. They're just meant to expose changes in the industry and how it affects the industry overall and if, and if you don't understand it and you feel like you're being bashed.
Speaker 2:I'll bash you. Well then, this isn't the show for you, I'll join.
Speaker 1:I'll join in and bash you. Let's make it right. But honestly, you know, support our show, support what we're doing as well, by subscribing or joining on to anything. Hit like, hit, share, post a comment and get involved with these conversations. We love to have them. And again, like she said, if you're out there and you want to have a conversation and you feel you have something worthy, hit us up and let us know, because that's what we're all about is. We're here for the industry. We want to have conversations with everybody out there. So ciao for now.
Speaker 2:Ciao.
